Daghouse.com

I’ll start. The Doors were a better albums band than The Beatles. Those early Beatles records have too many covers I could do without. Their later records have too many of their own songs I could live without (mostly Paul’s songs that veer into proto-Wings territory). That leaves a sweet spot of Revolver and maybe Help where I really enjoy every song. The Doors, OTOH, I pretty much enjoy all their albums from start to finish, except maybe L.A. Woman, which is certainly my least favorite. As a singles band, The Beatles were pretty flawless, though.

I definitely like the Doors better than the Beatles. Huge Doors fan. However, I think LA Woman rips.

The Beatles are a band I can no longer trust my judgement on. I like them, fine. I love some of their songs to death. But the fact that I have heard every note infinite times since my birth... as well as the claim that they were the best band to ever exist in the history of the universe by every music critic and passing music fan... I can never tell if my opinion of them as 'ok' is just me being contrarian, or just being completely bored with them as an entity from over exposure.

I am the Lizard King. I can do anything.

I don’t like SSD. I’ve tried.

I really don’t dig Metallica. Never did. No one believed me(my friends) they thought I was just being a pain in the ass. I don’t get how they essentially became the next Led Zeppelin. I think they suck.


Circle Jerks are very....meh. Peaked early and then became mediocre-mid tempo-blah. Some Cool songs on every album but I wish they would go away and Keith would put it all into OFF!
The constant reissues of Group Sex I just don’t understand. Wild In The Streets is a way better album. What do I know?

drew wrote:I really don’t dig Metallica. Never did. No one believed me(my friends) they thought I was just being a pain in the ass. I don’t get how they essentially became the next Led Zeppelin. I think they suck.

I love KEA. I like the other records through AJFA. Overall, I would much rather listen to Slayer.

drew wrote:Circle Jerks are very....meh. Peaked early and then became mediocre-mid tempo-blah. Some Cool songs on every album but I wish they would go away and Keith would put it all into OFF!
The constant reissues of Group Sex I just don’t understand. Wild In The Streets is a way better album. What do I know?

The first three CJs records are great. The other ones are fine, but nothing stellar. I do prefer WITS to Group Sex, but that probably has a lot to do with the fact that it was the first hardcore record I ever heard.

version sound wrote:I’ll start. The Doors were a better albums band than The Beatles. Those early Beatles records have too many covers I could do without. Their later records have too many of their own songs I could live without (mostly Paul’s songs that veer into proto-Wings territory). That leaves a sweet spot of Revolver and maybe Help where I really enjoy every song. The Doors, OTOH, I pretty much enjoy all their albums from start to finish, except maybe L.A. Woman, which is certainly my least favorite. As a singles band, The Beatles were pretty flawless, though.

wut

SamDBL wrote:I definitely like the Doors better than the Beatles. Huge Doors fan. However, I think LA Woman rips.

The Beatles are a band I can no longer trust my judgement on. I like them, fine. I love some of their songs to death. But the fact that I have heard every note infinite times since my birth... as well as the claim that they were the best band to ever exist in the history of the universe by every music critic and passing music fan... I can never tell if my opinion of them as 'ok' is just me being contrarian, or just being completely bored with them as an entity from over exposure.

I'm more or less on the same page, but I trust my judgement because I've pretty much always felt that way about them, even as a little kid... lots of great songs, lots of stupid bullshit too. Mostly prefer the earlier Chuck Berry/50s American Rock n Roll influenced stuff to the later psychedelic studio-creations version of the band, although they did have some good tunes in there as well. But I would take the Stones, Kinks and/or early Who over the Beatles any day of the week.

P.S.: Obligatory

New Order are much better than Joy Division who are grossly overrated.

Wow, between the "Doors are a better album band than the Beatles" and the "Rap Sux" thread this is a real bummer of a time to be hanging around here. It's like the EXPERIMENTAL, JET SET, TRASH & NO STAR of the Dagboard.

scannest wrote:Wow, between the "Doors are a better album band than the Beatles" and the "Rap Sux" thread this is a real bummer of a time to be hanging around here. It's like the EXPERIMENTAL, JET SET, TRASH & NO STAR of the Dagboard.

FLIP

jaybird wrote:

SamDBL wrote:I definitely like the Doors better than the Beatles. Huge Doors fan. However, I think LA Woman rips.

The Beatles are a band I can no longer trust my judgement on. I like them, fine. I love some of their songs to death. But the fact that I have heard every note infinite times since my birth... as well as the claim that they were the best band to ever exist in the history of the universe by every music critic and passing music fan... I can never tell if my opinion of them as 'ok' is just me being contrarian, or just being completely bored with them as an entity from over exposure.

I'm more or less on the same page, but I trust my judgement because I've pretty much always felt that way about them, even as a little kid... lots of great songs, lots of stupid bullshit too. Mostly prefer the earlier Chuck Berry/50s American Rock n Roll influenced stuff to the later psychedelic studio-creations version of the band, although they did have some good tunes in there as well. But I would take the Stones, Kinks and/or early Who over the Beatles any day of the week.

I have become so much further into the Stones camp, it's not even funny. The Beatles were always thought of as the 'smart band'. But I think the songwriting team of Jagger/Richards is just as clever, in every sense of the word, as the McCartney/Lennon partnership. On top of that, I think it's way harder to pull off that blues-y, loose approach convincingly than the more straight forward pop centric way bands like the Beatles sing and present their songs. The same reason I flipped to favoring the Replacements over Husker Du years ago. I used to think that slovenly sound was inferior. But I'm totally the opposite, now.

jaybird wrote:Mostly prefer the earlier Chuck Berry/50s American Rock n Roll influenced stuff to the later psychedelic studio-creations version of the band, although they did have some good tunes in there as well. But I would take the Stones, Kinks and/or early Who over the Beatles any day of the week.

Your opinion re: the Beatles is not that unusual. Not at all. Kids were debating Beatles vs. Stones in '65 fer chrissakes.
Thinking "Can I be the only one who thinks the Beatles aren't the best rock band ever?" is kinda the equivalent of "Can I be the only one who thinks Star Wars isn't the best movie ever?" It might seem like accepted wisdom, but you don't really have to dig too deep to find contrary opinions.

gregpolard wrote:

scannest wrote:Wow, between the "Doors are a better album band than the Beatles" and the "Rap Sux" thread this is a real bummer of a time to be hanging around here. It's like the EXPERIMENTAL, JET SET, TRASH & NO STAR of the Dagboard.

FLIP

I’m not saying that they weren’t great, but I’m both an album guy and not a song skipper. Up to and including Rubber Soul (UK version), there are at least 2 or 3 songs per album I don’t particularly enjoy. Help and Revolver are pretty solid from start to finish. Even Revolver has “Got to get You into my Life,” which I do not dig, but the album is so strong otherwise that it gets a pass. The albums after that each have at least 2 songs that I am not a fan of (the white album has more than that, but it’s still my favorite late Beatles record). Maybe you guys love everything the Beatles ever recorded uncritically (like 90% of the guys at the Hoffman Forums), but from an objective standpoint, it’s not all gold. The Beatles probably have more peaks than The Doors, but The Doors more consistently wrote songs that I enjoy. The best of the Beatles probably eclipses the best of The Doors, but the same is true for the worst of the Beatles. Higher highs and lower lows. I bet you two love that Paul music hall dreck.

version sound wrote:I’ll start. The Doors were a better albums band than The Beatles. Those early Beatles records have too many covers I could do without. Their later records have too many of their own songs I could live without (mostly Paul’s songs that veer into proto-Wings territory). That leaves a sweet spot of Revolver and maybe Help where I really enjoy every song. The Doors, OTOH, I pretty much enjoy all their albums from start to finish, except maybe L.A. Woman, which is certainly my least favorite. As a singles band, The Beatles were pretty flawless, though.

Exact opposite here. The s/t and L.A. Woman are the only ones I like from start to finish whereas I can listen to any Beatles album from start to finish. L.A. Woman is my favorite, particularly as I get older. Before I'd say it was tied with the debut, but L.A. Woman (once you dig beyond the title track) has a feel unlike anything they ever did before.

drew wrote:I don’t like SSD. I’ve tried.

Right there with you (sorta). I like them OK (at least the 1st 3), but just don't love them as everyone else does. I've tried. If it wasn't for Al's incredible guitar tone, they'd be very forgettable musically IMO. I think "How Much Art" is their best song; also probably not a popular opinion. DYS' Brotherhood is way way better.

Here's one I get a ton of shit for always: Youth of Today before the final lineup do little for me and of those I think, Can't Close My Eyes is my favorite and the only one I'd go back to. The last 7" is my favorite by far and one of the best things Rev ever released.

The only Chain of Strength song I really like is "True Til Death." I can take or leave the rest of the catalog.

I couldn't disagree with you more about Metallica (1st 4 albums only) and Circle Jerks, btw.

version sound wrote:

drew wrote:
The first three CJs records are great. The other ones are fine, but nothing stellar. I do prefer WITS to Group Sex, but that probably has a lot to do with the fact that it was the first hardcore record I ever heard.

Unpopular opinion: VI is as good as the 1st 2 (ducking). The 2 between those peaks do way less for me, but I like it all. I prefer Group Sex to Wild in the Streets, but love both. I only heard the '90s reunion album a few times and it was OK.

xxxMidgexxx wrote:New Order are much better than Joy Division who are grossly overrated.

I like Power, Corruption, and Lies as much as anything by Joy Division these days and there are other songs in their catalog I'd put up right next to JD, but I have to disagree.

Is it unpopular to prefer Closer over Unknown Pleasures?

xxxMidgexxx wrote:New Order are much better than Joy Division who are grossly overrated.

Pure insanity. JD from the Transmission single through their untimely demise was 100% flawless. NO have released a lot of great stuff - stuff that is absolutely on par with prime JD - but they’ve had their fair share of duds throughout their career as well. Even if you compare only NO’s first few years to JD’s last few, JD was much, much, much, much, much more consistently great.

scannest wrote:

jaybird wrote:Mostly prefer the earlier Chuck Berry/50s American Rock n Roll influenced stuff to the later psychedelic studio-creations version of the band, although they did have some good tunes in there as well. But I would take the Stones, Kinks and/or early Who over the Beatles any day of the week.

Your opinion re: the Beatles is not that unusual. Not at all. Kids were debating Beatles vs. Stones in '65 fer chrissakes.
Thinking "Can I be the only one who thinks the Beatles aren't the best rock band ever?" is kinda the equivalent of "Can I be the only one who thinks Star Wars isn't the best movie ever?" It might seem like accepted wisdom, but you don't really have to dig too deep to find contrary opinions.

Matthew Sweet's take on Star Wars is what I always think of in this category. After some cursory searching, I couldn't locate it, but I remember he did an interview in the '90s when he basically said that Star Wars is for kids, overrated, etc. while lauding more serious sci-fi films (he's way into that stuff).

JGJR wrote:

xxxMidgexxx wrote:New Order are much better than Joy Division who are grossly overrated.

I like Power, Corruption, and Lies as much as anything by Joy Division these days and there are other songs in their catalog I'd put up right next to JD, but I have to disagree.

Is it unpopular to prefer Closer over Unknown Pleasures?

Rule of thumb : If you think it, it's most likely an unpopular opinion.

gregpolard wrote:

JGJR wrote:

xxxMidgexxx wrote:New Order are much better than Joy Division who are grossly overrated.

I like Power, Corruption, and Lies as much as anything by Joy Division these days and there are other songs in their catalog I'd put up right next to JD, but I have to disagree.

Is it unpopular to prefer Closer over Unknown Pleasures?

Rule of thumb : If you think it, it's most likely an unpopular opinion.

Rude! I think it’s actually not all that unpopular. To the extent that I can pick a favorite between these two perfect records, I probably lean towards Closer.

JGJR wrote:Is it unpopular to prefer Closer over Unknown Pleasures?

Mos Def!

I listen to the Beatles when I'm in the mood, which is rare these days. Same with the Stones. Both bands are played out for me at this point, so I really have to be in the mindset to play anything by them at all. At least the Beatles had the good sense to call it quits when they did. I think the Stones should have split after Sticky Fingers.

Here's a very unpopular opinion: my favorite Stones album is the UK version of Between the Buttons. Tracklist is different and superior to the U.S. one. FWIW I think Exile is one of the most overrated rock albums of all time.

RE: the Circle Jerks, second and third albums have their moments but they only made one true classic, and that's the debut.

Re: JD vs. NO, kind of a stupid debate IMHO, because after NO got Movement out of their system they were really two totally different bands.

If I'm being honest I probably play NO stuff more because it's less depressing to listen to. After Brotherhood, NO basically went downhill. Technique is a decent album but not a strong as the earlier stuff. I actually think their last album (Music Complete) might be their strongest post-Republic work though without Hook I'm not sure we can really call it NO anymore. Anyway, a fun album but not a real classic obviously.

RE: the Doors, I like them just fine but they had their fair share of weaker albums and filler songs like every other band. Matter of fact one of their biggest overplayed hits is just a recycled Kinks riff.

drew wrote:The constant reissues of Group Sex I just don’t understand. Wild In The Streets is a way better album. What do I know?

The reason WITS hasn't been reissued more often is because the original mixdown tapes are lost and have been for decades. It's also never been as popular as Group Sex. The owner of Frontier is smart and always kept stuff constantly in print if it sold well - often on multiple formats. That's why any 80s punk starter kit always included certain things on that label - you could easily buy the albums at any given time. Think about how many other classic punk albums have been OOP for years at a time over the last 3-4 decades.

patient_ot wrote:RE: the Doors, I like them just fine but they had their fair share of weaker albums and filler songs like every other band. Matter of fact one of their biggest overplayed hits is just a recycled Kinks riff.

What song do you mean?

JGJR wrote:What song do you mean?

Hello, I Love You!

Right?

scannest wrote:

JGJR wrote:What song do you mean?

Hello, I Love You!

Right?

Yep.

patient_ot wrote:

scannest wrote:

JGJR wrote:What song do you mean?

Hello, I Love You!

Right?

Yep.

https://medium.com/@Rifftime_Music/the-story-behind-the-doors-hello-i-love-you-175441aaede2

Funny, I always thought it was a rip off of “You Really Got Me” for some reason (brain malfunction probably) but apparently it was “All Day And All Of The Night.” I like both songs. The riff might be boosted (ok, no might about it, apparently Morrison copped to it), but overall, I don’t think they sound that much alike. I enjoy both (but honestly probably like the rip off more).

version sound wrote:I like both songs. The riff might be boosted (ok, no might about it, apparently Morrison copped to it), but overall, I don’t think they sound that much alike. I enjoy both (but honestly probably like the rip off more).

In general I don't care about these things (god forbid someone takes the time to figure out all the...um, "inspired" chord changes on my records). But it is fun to recognize these things. Townshend wrote about it on the last Who album. I dig the sentiment:
I don't mind
Other guys ripping off my song
I'd be a liar
If I said I never done no wrong
Oh, this sound that we share
Has already been played
And it hangs in the air
All this music will fade
Or, as Neil Young put it, "It's all one song, man."

version sound wrote:
https://medium.com/@Rifftime_Music/the-story-behind-the-doors-hello-i-love-you-175441aaede2

Funny, I always thought it was a rip off of “You Really Got Me” for some reason (brain malfunction probably) but apparently it was “All Day And All Of The Night.” I like both songs. The riff might be boosted (ok, no might about it, apparently Morrison copped to it), but overall, I don’t think they sound that much alike. I enjoy both (but honestly probably like the rip off more).

The Kinks had a few songs that were structured the same way. The Who and the Clash also copped the same riff and changed it up a little bit.

The Doors song is okay, but certainly not one of their best IMHO.

patient_ot wrote:

drew wrote:The constant reissues of Group Sex I just don’t understand. Wild In The Streets is a way better album. What do I know?

The reason WITS hasn't been reissued more often is because the original mixdown tapes are lost and have been for decades. It's also never been as popular as Group Sex. The owner of Frontier is smart and always kept stuff constantly in print if it sold well - often on multiple formats. That's why any 80s punk starter kit always included certain things on that label - you could easily buy the albums at any given time. Think about how many other classic punk albums have been OOP for years at a time over the last 3-4 decades.

Yes, good point. You keep in print what sells. I felt the same way about “The Crew” There are so many records that need to be back in print.

drew wrote:

Yes, good point. You keep in print what sells. I felt the same way about “The Crew” There are so many records that need to be back in print.

Another reason for WITS going in and out of print also *might* have to do with the fact that three songs, including the title track, are covers. That means royalties have to be paid out for those songs. If the rights holder starts being a PITA, you either don't reissue the album or remove the cover songs for the reissue - which fans will inevitably complain about. Ever wonder why reissues often remove cover songs? I can think of a few examples off the top of my head...Gen X's first album, Neurosis' Word As Law, Swans' Various Failures...many others I'm sure.

patient_ot wrote:Another reason for WITS going in and out of print also *might* have to do with the fact that three songs, including the title track, are covers. That means royalties have to be paid out for those songs. If the rights holder starts being a PITA, you either don't reissue the album or remove the cover songs for the reissue - which fans will inevitably complain about. Ever wonder why reissues often remove cover songs? I can think of a few examples off the top of my head...Gen X's first album, Neurosis' Word As Law, Swans' Various Failures...many others I'm sure.

Minutemen's "Double Nickels..." comes to mind. Also, for the Neurosis, it was only the cd that had "Day of the Lords" on it as a bonus track (taken from the Allied 7" they did).

Which song was removed from Gen X 1st album

lewdd wrote:Which song was removed from Gen X 1st album

“Gimme Some Truth” is the first song on the American version. The (superior) British tracklist never had it. I don’t think it was removed for reissues so much as the reissues follow the UK tracklist.

ah the Lennon song

version sound wrote:

lewdd wrote:Which song was removed from Gen X 1st album

“Gimme Some Truth” is the first song on the American version. The (superior) British tracklist never had it. I don’t think it was removed for reissues so much as the reissues follow the UK tracklist.

There was a CD with it in the late 80s. Then a few CDs omitted it, even ones with bonus tracks where there was room for it to be included at the end. There was a deluxe edition in 2019 that had the song, but the wrong version of the track was included, plus the mastering was reportedly bad. Even the 2002 CD I have is bricked, so I'm not even sure what a good CD version would be of this album. They're all either incomplete, have bad mastering, or tape drag issues from what I can tell. For now I typically play the U.S. LP when I want to hear the album, or a needledrop of it.

matt wrote:

patient_ot wrote:Another reason for WITS going in and out of print also *might* have to do with the fact that three songs, including the title track, are covers. That means royalties have to be paid out for those songs. If the rights holder starts being a PITA, you either don't reissue the album or remove the cover songs for the reissue - which fans will inevitably complain about. Ever wonder why reissues often remove cover songs? I can think of a few examples off the top of my head...Gen X's first album, Neurosis' Word As Law, Swans' Various Failures...many others I'm sure.

Minutemen's "Double Nickels..." comes to mind. Also, for the Neurosis, it was only the cd that had "Day of the Lords" on it as a bonus track (taken from the Allied 7" they did).

Yep, Minutemen is one but for a time there was also CD space constraints at issue. And yes on the CD of the Neurosis album. Though it would've been nice for the band's own recent-ish CD reissue to include the song.

patient_ot wrote:

version sound wrote:

lewdd wrote:Which song was removed from Gen X 1st album

“Gimme Some Truth” is the first song on the American version. The (superior) British tracklist never had it. I don’t think it was removed for reissues so much as the reissues follow the UK tracklist.

There was a CD with it in the late 80s. Then a few CDs omitted it, even ones with bonus tracks where there was room for it to be included at the end. There was a deluxe edition in 2019 that had the song, but the wrong version of the track was included, plus the mastering was reportedly bad. Even the 2002 CD I have is bricked, so I'm not even sure what a good CD version would be of this album. They're all either incomplete, have bad mastering, or tape drag issues from what I can tell. For now I typically play the U.S. LP when I want to hear the album, or a needledrop of it.

I think I have 7 versions of the album on vinyl and CD.

lewdd wrote:

patient_ot wrote:

version sound wrote:

lewdd wrote:Which song was removed from Gen X 1st album

“Gimme Some Truth” is the first song on the American version. The (superior) British tracklist never had it. I don’t think it was removed for reissues so much as the reissues follow the UK tracklist.

There was a CD with it in the late 80s. Then a few CDs omitted it, even ones with bonus tracks where there was room for it to be included at the end. There was a deluxe edition in 2019 that had the song, but the wrong version of the track was included, plus the mastering was reportedly bad. Even the 2002 CD I have is bricked, so I'm not even sure what a good CD version would be of this album. They're all either incomplete, have bad mastering, or tape drag issues from what I can tell. For now I typically play the U.S. LP when I want to hear the album, or a needledrop of it.

I think I have 7 versions of the album on vinyl and CD.

Any questions about Gen X album you should write to Rollins. No joke, he knows everything that can be known about that record and would prob jump at the chance to tell you what you want to know.

Bury those vocals in the mix, do not put it on top. Like Bob does, even if most of the Hoffmanites hate it. They can buy the record and READ the fucking lyrics.

Dinko wrote:Bury those vocals in the mix, do not put it on top. Like Bob does, even if most of the Hoffmanites hate it. They can buy the record and READ the fucking lyrics.

I hate vocals like that. I bought an equalizer just so I could lift the vocals higher on punk records when I listen to them.

version sound wrote:

lewdd wrote:Which song was removed from Gen X 1st album

“Gimme Some Truth” is the first song on the American version. The (superior) British tracklist never had it. I don’t think it was removed for reissues so much as the reissues follow the UK tracklist.

They do, but the European CD reissue of Valley of the Dolls from the early '00s tacked it on as a bonus track since it was the B-side of "King Rocker."

https://www.discogs.com/release/1819564 ... -The-Dolls

lewdd wrote:I think I have 7 versions of the album on vinyl and CD.

I have 2. Both OG UK vinyl. I feel no need to own the Lennon cover and think the US tracklist sucks compared to the UK. The idea of starting it with a cover (so as not to scare off American boomers with PUNK ROCK right off the bat, I guess) is weak sauce. Lucky for me, I always owned the UK version, as my local record store in the ‘80s carried the import version. I don’t think I even knew the US version was different until the internet.

lewdd wrote:

patient_ot wrote:

version sound wrote:

lewdd wrote:Which song was removed from Gen X 1st album

“Gimme Some Truth” is the first song on the American version. The (superior) British tracklist never had it. I don’t think it was removed for reissues so much as the reissues follow the UK tracklist.

There was a CD with it in the late 80s. Then a few CDs omitted it, even ones with bonus tracks where there was room for it to be included at the end. There was a deluxe edition in 2019 that had the song, but the wrong version of the track was included, plus the mastering was reportedly bad. Even the 2002 CD I have is bricked, so I'm not even sure what a good CD version would be of this album. They're all either incomplete, have bad mastering, or tape drag issues from what I can tell. For now I typically play the U.S. LP when I want to hear the album, or a needledrop of it.

I think I have 7 versions of the album on vinyl and CD.

I started with the U.S. cassette (which I no longer have) and the U.S. version is still far and away my preferred track order, but then got vinyl copies of both the U.S. and U.K. versions (both of which I still have) and Valley of the Dolls (ditto, thankfully). I had those 2002 CDs of the 1st 2 albums as well, but no longer.

version sound wrote:

lewdd wrote:I think I have 7 versions of the album on vinyl and CD.

I have 2. Both OG UK vinyl. I feel no need to own the Lennon cover and think the US tracklist sucks compared to the UK. The idea of starting it with a cover (so as not to scare off American boomers with PUNK ROCK right off the bat, I guess) is weak sauce. Lucky for me, I always owned the UK version, as my local record store in the ‘80s carried the import version. I don’t think I even knew the US version was different until the internet.

I see your point and sure, U.S. record companies did all sorts of silly stuff like that back then, but in the case of Gen X, they were always about wanting to be rock stars anyway, so I don't think it's a stretch at all. Plus, it's the best version of that song IMO.

Dinko wrote:Bury those vocals in the mix, do not put it on top. Like Bob does, even if most of the Hoffmanites hate it. They can buy the record and READ the fucking lyrics.

I want some context here. Which Bob are you talking about? Mould?

I take it back, I only have 6 versions of the S/T and 3 of Valley of the Dolls.

SamDBL wrote:I have become so much further into the Stones camp, it's not even funny. The Beatles were always thought of as the 'smart band'. But I think the songwriting team of Jagger/Richards is just as clever, in every sense of the word, as the McCartney/Lennon partnership. On top of that, I think it's way harder to pull off that blues-y, loose approach convincingly than the more straight forward pop centric way bands like the Beatles sing and present their songs. The same reason I flipped to favoring the Replacements over Husker Du years ago. I used to think that slovenly sound was inferior. But I'm totally the opposite, now.

I hate the Beatles. I generally believe, if a group is impactful and culturally relevant as most any of the "big ones" are, there's got to be SOME redeeming aspect in/of their catalog. I don't LOVE Zeppelin, but I can acknowledge their talent, production, craft, etc. Same with the Stones. I don't like all their stuff, but undeniable gems, undeniable talent, and raw honesty.

The Beatles? Perhaps their shiny choirboy fake-ness turned me off, perhaps I can't stand their smarmyness hiding whatever they were preaching, but I SHOULD be able to appreciate something about the songs.

Can't.

I recognize that I like honest music, and the Beatles aren't honest. They think they're sly, subversive, and congratulated themselves constantly for wrapping their preach in sugary pop, but there's a fake elitism there, from the good little boy suits to the oh-so-secret-messages in their self-absorbed cover art and lyrics.

Give me the raw emotion and clear message of a nasal, off-key Bob Mould vs. an autotuned pitch-perfect pablum-pushing popstar any day.

(Which leads into the Husker v. Replacement note: I love Bob, but Warehouse was HD's high water mark to me, the early stuff needed to take a sec and let the art shine through. Replacements, I liked when a lot of the 80's 'punk' bands started to take a sec and not try to three-chord-race to the end, but rather explored the space (Walken!) and let some talent show through. Replacements pop craft and poetry was actually pretty amazing for a bunch of drunk kids.)


Also don't like the Doors, but whatever. I haven't explored their catalog, it's just taste, which there is no accounting for.

Also edgy: Eric Clapton wasn't the guitar god as purported. Been listening to Hendrix more lately, honest work there.