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I spent the morning listening to American Idiot in its entirety. Again.

39/Smooth
Kerplunk
Dookie
Insomniac

These are my go-to albums when it comes to Green Day.

I do like AI, but not on the same level as any of the above.

Was there another thread on Green Day recently?

I sold all my Green Day stuff in about 1992. Sold a bunch of other stuff around that time period and regret all of it. I'm starting to grab reissues of whatever I can find on vinyl for a reasonable price. Picked up the Insomniacexpanded reissue with a live set a few month ago. Grabbed Kerplunk with the Sweet Children 7" included from the local store this weekend. This morning I ordered the BBC Session 2LP and the newest album.

I saw them about 25-30 times, with the last time being in 1994, the first show of the Dookie tour:


Also, I took the earliest live photos of the band. I let the Turn It Around movie use them, but trying to figure out what to do with them, otherwise.

American Idiot (for all its hype) is their magnum opus.

Rarely the mainstream get it right. They did however with Green Day and Nirvana.

Never stopped. Kerplunk & 39/Smooth are my favorites, but I liked a few lps after that. Never really heard the newish stuff.

Never cared for this band.

Really good band, for what they are imo. That evenly bros cover album the singer did with Nora jones is good, too.

Very good band that got bloated and boring after the massive success of AMERICAN IDIOT. They've only come back in fits and starts since. The Foxboro Hot Tubs record is the best thing they've done post-AI.

Oh, and WARNING is their best record by a country mile.

Love every record up through American Idiot (Insomniac, Nimrod and Warning all get severely overlooked). I don't think I've ever heard a full record after that. Heard a couple of songs from Revolution Radio that sounded OK.

They are one of those bands that, musically, just puts out the same record over and over. The exception being the first full-length. Just like Motörhead and AC/DC, they bring their own sound and chemistry and I appreciate the consistency. But it’s not like I’m on the edge of my seat waiting for the newest album to be released. After four albums they’d apparently said all they cared to say a few times over. I haven’t heard the most recent albums. But I assume my reaction would be ‘ah. Not bad. I like it’. And then never listen to it again.

SamDBL wrote:They are one of those bands that, musically, just puts out the same record over and over. The exception being the first full-length. Just like Motörhead and AC/DC, they bring their own sound and chemistry and I appreciate the consistency. But it’s not like I’m on the edge of my seat waiting for the newest album to be released. After four albums they’d apparently said all they cared to say a few times over. I haven’t heard the most recent albums. But I assume my reaction would be ‘ah. Not bad. I like it’. And then never listen to it again.

I think the fact that so many fans of the earliest days dropped off the Green Day wagon after American Idiot is sort of proof that they actually did NOT put out the same record over & over again. I'm not an expert on the post-American Idiot records, but from what I've heard - they are quite different than those first 15 years of records. It's just that - I think many of us would have preferred them not changing course as they did. When you own the formula - keep it going.

captain2man wrote:

SamDBL wrote:They are one of those bands that, musically, just puts out the same record over and over. The exception being the first full-length. Just like Motörhead and AC/DC, they bring their own sound and chemistry and I appreciate the consistency. But it’s not like I’m on the edge of my seat waiting for the newest album to be released. After four albums they’d apparently said all they cared to say a few times over. I haven’t heard the most recent albums. But I assume my reaction would be ‘ah. Not bad. I like it’. And then never listen to it again.

I think the fact that so many fans of the earliest days dropped off the Green Day wagon after American Idiot is sort of proof that they actually did NOT put out the same record over & over again. I'm not an expert on the post-American Idiot records, but from what I've heard - they are quite different than those first 15 years of records. It's just that - I think many of us would have preferred them not changing course as they did. When you own the formula - keep it going.

Interesting. I just figured the fans you spoke of got kind of bored. The first album has a way different sound, imo. More open chord type stuff. Everything after that seemed to stick to the same formula with increasing production value until that also hit a ceiling. The production value of Dookie was a massive upgrade from kerplunk, which was exciting to hear. But other than that, not much variation between the songs of the two albums. I think I was totally bored by the time nimrod came around. Slight interest again for warning. Then bored again. Did not even make it to American idiot. I know that was their big ‘concept’ album. But musically it seemed like the same old shit, for the most part. If anything, maybe they’ve been trending towards super slick, modern pop rock ever so slightly?

the mean wrote:Was there another thread on Green Day recently?

I sold all my Green Day stuff in about 1992. Sold a bunch of other stuff around that time period and regret all of it. I'm starting to grab reissues of whatever I can find on vinyl for a reasonable price. Picked up the Insomniacexpanded reissue with a live set a few month ago. Grabbed Kerplunk with the Sweet Children 7" included from the local store this weekend. This morning I ordered the BBC Session 2LP and the newest album.

I saw them about 25-30 times, with the last time being in 1994, the first show of the Dookie tour:


Also, I took the earliest live photos of the band. I let the Turn It Around movie use them, but trying to figure out what to do with them, otherwise.

I feel this. I was (and still am) a huge fan of the early stuff, especially anything pre-Tre joining since they were basically still Sweet Children then at that point. I realized I'm a way bigger SC fan than a GD fan when I saw the setlists for their RRHOF performances. I did like Kerplunk! a lot at the time and saw them support it a few times, the last time being in late 1993 at Roseland when they opened for Bad Religion. The first time I saw them was in January 1993 at City Gardens and I think that's when they got signed right after that show?

I haven't seen them play since then, but have seen Billie Joe in other configurations much more recently. I loved the promo tape I got before Dookie came out with a few of its songs, but after they blew up, I was like "nah" (probably like many other older fans). I still have a soft spot for them, though. Anyway, I also sold all of my GD stuff at some point in the '90s; had (I think) all the OG 7"s, 39/Smooth Lp and cassette (I think the latter with the Laytonville address since I got it in '91, but can't remember), Kerplunk on cassette, and other stuff like comps, etc.

I've yet to pick up the WB reissues of the pre-major stuff, but I really want to. It's some of the finest pop-punk/power-pop/whatever ever recorded IMO.

SamDBL wrote:They are one of those bands that, musically, just puts out the same record over and over. The exception being the first full-length. Just like Motörhead and AC/DC, they bring their own sound and chemistry and I appreciate the consistency. But it’s not like I’m on the edge of my seat waiting for the newest album to be released. After four albums they’d apparently said all they cared to say a few times over. I haven’t heard the most recent albums. But I assume my reaction would be ‘ah. Not bad. I like it’. And then never listen to it again.

Their best by a mile. It's interesting that it's more mature and introspective lyrically than most of the stuff they did afterwards, especially the stuff they're most known for. There are also a lot of EVH-lite type leads on there that Billie Joe later abandoned. They modified their sound and made millions and great for them (seriously), but the stuff I relate to the most is 39/Smooth and the singles around that time. There's also a vulnerability in songs like "Disappearing Boy" and "I Was There" that they didn't really return to again after that unless it's on some of those later Reprise albums and I just don't know it (last one I heard in full was Dookie with the exception of American Idiot; latter didn't do that much for me tbh).

SamDBL wrote:

captain2man wrote:

SamDBL wrote:They are one of those bands that, musically, just puts out the same record over and over. The exception being the first full-length. Just like Motörhead and AC/DC, they bring their own sound and chemistry and I appreciate the consistency. But it’s not like I’m on the edge of my seat waiting for the newest album to be released. After four albums they’d apparently said all they cared to say a few times over. I haven’t heard the most recent albums. But I assume my reaction would be ‘ah. Not bad. I like it’. And then never listen to it again.

I think the fact that so many fans of the earliest days dropped off the Green Day wagon after American Idiot is sort of proof that they actually did NOT put out the same record over & over again. I'm not an expert on the post-American Idiot records, but from what I've heard - they are quite different than those first 15 years of records. It's just that - I think many of us would have preferred them not changing course as they did. When you own the formula - keep it going.

Interesting. I just figured the fans you spoke of got kind of bored. The first album has a way different sound, imo. More open chord type stuff. Everything after that seemed to stick to the same formula with increasing production value until that also hit a ceiling. The production value of Dookie was a massive upgrade from kerplunk, which was exciting to hear. But other than that, not much variation between the songs of the two albums. I think I was totally bored by the time nimrod came around. Slight interest again for warning. Then bored again. Did not even make it to American idiot. I know that was their big ‘concept’ album. But musically it seemed like the same old shit, for the most part. If anything, maybe they’ve been trending towards super slick, modern pop rock ever so slightly?

THIS!

JGJR wrote:There's also a vulnerability in songs like "Disappearing Boy" and "I Was There" that they didn't really return to again after that unless it's on some of those later Reprise albums and I just don't know it (last one I heard in full was Dookie with the exception of American Idiot; latter didn't do that much for me tbh).

Pretty sure lyrics for "I Was There" were written by original drummer John. Not sure how many others he wrote.

the mean wrote:

JGJR wrote:There's also a vulnerability in songs like "Disappearing Boy" and "I Was There" that they didn't really return to again after that unless it's on some of those later Reprise albums and I just don't know it (last one I heard in full was Dookie with the exception of American Idiot; latter didn't do that much for me tbh).

Pretty sure lyrics for "I Was There" were written by original drummer John. Not sure how many others he wrote.

I didn't know that. Did he write any other lyrics for them early on? It would then make sense that the lyrics/tone became much goofier (for lack of a proper why of saying it) when he left. Maybe this is a bit unfair, but it went from "I Was There" to "Dominated Love Slave" on the next album.

JGJR wrote:

the mean wrote:

JGJR wrote:There's also a vulnerability in songs like "Disappearing Boy" and "I Was There" that they didn't really return to again after that unless it's on some of those later Reprise albums and I just don't know it (last one I heard in full was Dookie with the exception of American Idiot; latter didn't do that much for me tbh).

Pretty sure lyrics for "I Was There" were written by original drummer John. Not sure how many others he wrote.

I didn't know that. Did he write any other lyrics for them early on? It would then make sense that the lyrics/tone became much goofier (for lack of a proper why of saying it) when he left. Maybe this is a bit unfair, but it went from "I Was There" to "Dominated Love Slave" on the next album.

Someone who has this LP can probably answer the question. Looks like it has the name of who wrote the lyrics for each song on the lyric sheet. A little small for me to read, though.

I have never been a fan. I don’t dislike them, but pop punk has never really appealed to me outside of the Buzzcocks and maybe some Descendents. The thing that really keeps me away is their use of certain chord progressions that in my mind are very American and very ‘80s. You hear this sound a lot on records by REM, Husker Du, Soul Asylum, Buffalo Tom, etc. Something about that sound is usually a real turn off for me, though Husker Du and Moving Targets did good stuff with it. I’ve even written riffs with it myself that I don’t really like, but stay in my repertoire of things to play when I’m fucking around on the guitar.

version sound wrote:The thing that really keeps me away is their use of certain chord progressions that in my mind are very American and very ‘80s.

I think what you're referring to is typically called a 'hook'. You don't like them apparently.

scannest wrote:

version sound wrote:The thing that really keeps me away is their use of certain chord progressions that in my mind are very American and very ‘80s.

I think what you're referring to is typically called a 'hook'. You don't like them apparently.

In fact, 50 % of VS taste in music is kinda suspect and "iffy".

Musically, some of their stuff is decent enough, but I cannot stand Billie Joe's voice. The way he enunciates words in his faux-accent with emphasis on certain syllables makes me want to smash anything playing their music. Sorry, not my thing.

saw them a bunch of times through 94

I can honestly say I haven't listened to a note of anything passed Dookie

the moment I saw them on Mtv it was over for me

still listen to their early stuff all the time

are there any particular songs after Dookie that I should listen to?

scannest wrote:

version sound wrote:The thing that really keeps me away is their use of certain chord progressions that in my mind are very American and very ‘80s.

I think what you're referring to is typically called a 'hook'. You don't like them apparently.

Being an obnoxious asshole doesn’t suit you half as well as it does midge.

version sound wrote:

scannest wrote:

version sound wrote:The thing that really keeps me away is their use of certain chord progressions that in my mind are very American and very ‘80s.

I think what you're referring to is typically called a 'hook'. You don't like them apparently.

Being an obnoxious asshole doesn’t suit you half as well as it does midge.

Hey fuck you. I've worked HARD to get that status.

xxxMidgexxx wrote:

version sound wrote:

scannest wrote:

version sound wrote:The thing that really keeps me away is their use of certain chord progressions that in my mind are very American and very ‘80s.

I think what you're referring to is typically called a 'hook'. You don't like them apparently.

Being an obnoxious asshole doesn’t suit you half as well as it does midge.

Hey fuck you. I've worked HARD to get that status.

You do it with a certain grace that Sal lacks. He doesn’t understand that a little goes a long way. When every fucking response is just being a insulting dick, it gets old fast.

version sound wrote:

xxxMidgexxx wrote:

version sound wrote:

scannest wrote:

version sound wrote:The thing that really keeps me away is their use of certain chord progressions that in my mind are very American and very ‘80s.

I think what you're referring to is typically called a 'hook'. You don't like them apparently.

Being an obnoxious asshole doesn’t suit you half as well as it does midge.

Hey fuck you. I've worked HARD to get that status.

You do it with a certain grace that Sal lacks. He doesn’t understand that a little goes a long way. When every fucking response is just being a insulting dick, it gets old fast.

Then I can share with you that Lewdd texted me pics of his impending NYE feast. I told him that I was too hurt that he never brought me food he promised at the Dag show. Then we agreed that Sandinista would have made a perfect 1 sided 12". I think he's drinking now.

patient_ot wrote:Musically, some of their stuff is decent enough, but I cannot stand Billie Joe's voice. The way he enunciates words in his faux-accent with emphasis on certain syllables makes me want to smash anything playing their music. Sorry, not my thing.

^THIS. Their music does nothing for me. Might as well be wallpaper.

Love the first couple alubms and singles, for the reasons mentioned... better songs, lyrics, more interesting guitar playing, etc.... but along with the shift toward a more generic big budget "punk" sound on Dookie and later albums, I always kinda thought their whole 70s punk- rock/glam image overhaul around the same time was kinda lame as well... look at early pics of them around 1990... they were a bunch of long-haired hippie-pothead California dirtballs... dreadlocks, backward baseball caps, baggy clothes... basically like the late 80s skater kids they actually were at the time. The blue spiky hair and eyeliner look once they went to a major label always seemed kind forced and obvious to me.

But that said, I don't hate them or anything, just kinda "meh"

All true.

version sound wrote:

scannest wrote:

version sound wrote:The thing that really keeps me away is their use of certain chord progressions that in my mind are very American and very ‘80s.

I think what you're referring to is typically called a 'hook'. You don't like them apparently.

Being an obnoxious asshole doesn’t suit you half as well as it does midge.

Go easy on him. He''s in character and all about method.

patient_ot wrote:Musically, some of their stuff is decent enough, but I cannot stand Billie Joe's voice. The way he enunciates words in his faux-accent with emphasis on certain syllables makes me want to smash anything playing their music. Sorry, not my thing.

I strongly suspect that (like most people, understandably) your 1st exposure to them was via Dookie, MTV, etc. given the above. I wonder if I'm wrong, though, or did you hate the Lookout! stuff, too?

jaybird wrote:Love the first couple alubms and singles, for the reasons mentioned... better songs, lyrics, more interesting guitar playing, etc.... but along with the shift toward a more generic big budget "punk" sound on Dookie and later albums, I always kinda thought their whole 70s punk- rock/glam image overhaul around the same time was kinda lame as well... look at early pics of them around 1990... they were a bunch of long-haired hippie-pothead California dirtballs... dreadlocks, backward baseball caps, baggy clothes... basically like the late 80s skater kids they actually were at the time. The blue spiky hair and eyeliner look once they went to a major label always seemed kind forced and obvious to me.

But that said, I don't hate them or anything, just kinda "meh"

This is perfect; pretty much agree with every word here but I thought the glammy overhaul (no issue with that) was in the 2000s post-American Idiot. I probably wasn't paying close attention to that, though. Whatevs.

JGJR wrote:

jaybird wrote:Love the first couple alubms and singles, for the reasons mentioned... better songs, lyrics, more interesting guitar playing, etc.... but along with the shift toward a more generic big budget "punk" sound on Dookie and later albums, I always kinda thought their whole 70s punk- rock/glam image overhaul around the same time was kinda lame as well... look at early pics of them around 1990... they were a bunch of long-haired hippie-pothead California dirtballs... dreadlocks, backward baseball caps, baggy clothes... basically like the late 80s skater kids they actually were at the time. The blue spiky hair and eyeliner look once they went to a major label always seemed kind forced and obvious to me.

But that said, I don't hate them or anything, just kinda "meh"

This is perfect; pretty much agree with every word here but I thought the glammy overhaul (no issue with that) was in the 2000s post-American Idiot. I probably wasn't paying close attention to that, though. Whatevs.

It for sure went into overdrive around that time, but they definitely had a professional punk rock makeover when they signed to Reprise.


1989:


vs


1994:



not that i really cared one way or the other... i just thought it was just really noticeable and funny how they went from looking like a bunch of long-hair trailer-trash types like the Replacements to more what people typically perceive as a 'punk' look once they were signed to a major label.

I'm not going to spend a ton of time defending Green Day, but in that first pic (probably earlier than 89) they would have been 15 or 16, most likely. I'm not sure what your criticism is. They didn't dress the same at age 16 as they did at age 22? That's some petty bullshit.

the mean wrote:That's some petty bullshit.

Whadda we supposed to do, abandon our brand now?!

So.....Is it cool to start liking Green Day again?

xxxMidgexxx wrote:So.....Is it cool to start liking Green Day again?

Yes, Midge. You have my blessing. Enjoy!

the mean wrote:I'm not going to spend a ton of time defending Green Day, but in that first pic (probably earlier than 89) they would have been 15 or 16, most likely. I'm not sure what your criticism is. They didn't dress the same at age 16 as they did at age 22? That's some petty bullshit.

Yeah this is my take too. It's like people who complain that Billie Eilish changed her style of dress from album one to album two.

Imagine if I still dressed like I did in high school


(oh, wait...)

God damn. I never would've guessed Mean is such a rabid Green Day ass kisser that totally wants to suck off Mike Dirnt or some shit. Apologize this instant, Jaybird.

SamDBL wrote:God damn. I never would've guessed Mean is such a rabid Green Day ass kisser that totally wants to suck off Mike Dirnt or some shit. Apologize this instant, Jaybird.

I would bet money that this debate is a replay of an actual argument that took place in the MRR letters section circa 1994.

I distinctly remember this change over. I don't remember exactly when it happened. But I do remember grouping them with those late 80's pop punk bands like ALL, Doughboys and BDC when they had long hair. Then when they cut it shorter, I immediately got the notion that they were more closer related to Buzzcocks or Undertones. Marketing department totally nailed it.

the mean wrote:That's some petty bullshit.

Sorta like selling off all your merch?

And now we are back to lay judgement on others...........

Fun fact: the other band I wrote to and asked to join when I wrote dbl was Green Day. Probably around the ‘paper lanterns’ era, if not the first album. Unfun fact: they did not call me. I guess the singer owns a bar in Cali with the singer for Samiam. Samiam guy, who is an old bud, called us to have us fly out there an play. I jacked my dick raw fantasizing about Billie Joe showing up and me relaying the story to him. To which he would finally take me up on the offer. Which would be the feel good, ironic rock and roll success story of the year.
Then Covid hit and the whole god damn thing got called off. Oh well.

jaybird wrote:

SamDBL wrote:God damn. I never would've guessed Mean is such a rabid Green Day ass kisser that totally wants to suck off Mike Dirnt or some shit. Apologize this instant, Jaybird.

I would bet money that this debate is a replay of an actual argument that took place in the MRR letters section circa 1994.

That was funny, but I'll say this. I met Mike when I was 18 at a show they played with Bad Religion at Roseland in I'm gonna say fall 1993 (they blew BR off the stage that night, BTW) and he was super, super nice, especially considering that I was that obnoxious kid punishing him with questions about signing to Reprise (this was about I dunno 8 months before Dookie came out or something like that). Many years later (fall 2011), I was about 15 feet away from him at Irving Plaza watching The Damned, but I didn't approach him. I figured he was in town for the American Idiot on Broadway thing or rehearsals or something and he didn't wanna be bothered and just wanted a night to himself. I'll never forget how kind he was, though.

SamDBL wrote:I distinctly remember this change over. I don't remember exactly when it happened. But I do remember grouping them with those late 80's pop punk bands like ALL, Doughboys and BDC when they had long hair. Then when they cut it shorter, I immediately got the notion that they were more closer related to Buzzcocks or Undertones. Marketing department totally nailed it.

Ironically, their actual music owes a lot more to Replacements, Husker Du, and their Berkeley peers as well as classic rock stuff like The Who. I don't hear too much of that stuff in GD, personally, although I suppose there is a bit of Buzzcocks/Ramones/Undertones and later Descendents in every subsequent pop-punk group given the Buzzcocks/Ramones influence on HD in particular.

SamDBL wrote:Fun fact: the other band I wrote to and asked to join when I wrote dbl was Green Day. Probably around the ‘paper lanterns’ era, if not the first album. Unfun fact: they did not call me. I guess the singer owns a bar in Cali with the singer for Samiam. Samiam guy, who is an old bud, called us to have us fly out there an play. I jacked my dick raw fantasizing about Billie Joe showing up and me relaying the story to him. To which he would finally take me up on the offer. Which would be the feel good, ironic rock and roll success story of the year.
Then Covid hit and the whole god damn thing got called off. Oh well.

Maybe you or someone else can then explain why Samiam were barely featured (or not at all) in the Turn It Around documentary on the Bay Area punk scene that came out in 2017? I remember some discussiona bout it at the time and some sort of beef between Samiam and GD from back in the day, but hopefully, it was squelched or I misunderstood or something. My point is that I think Samiam needs to have their own story and not be forgotten. They were/are great.

JGJR wrote:

jaybird wrote:

SamDBL wrote:God damn. I never would've guessed Mean is such a rabid Green Day ass kisser that totally wants to suck off Mike Dirnt or some shit. Apologize this instant, Jaybird.

I would bet money that this debate is a replay of an actual argument that took place in the MRR letters section circa 1994.

That was funny, but I'll say this. I met Mike when I was 18 at a show they played with Bad Religion at Roseland in I'm gonna say fall 1993 (they blew BR off the stage that night, BTW) and he was super, super nice, especially considering that I was that obnoxious kid punishing him with questions about signing to Reprise (this was about I dunno 8 months before Dookie came out or something like that). Many years later (fall 2011), I was about 15 feet away from him at Irving Plaza watching The Damned, but I didn't approach him. I figured he was in town for the American Idiot on Broadway thing or rehearsals or something and he didn't wanna be bothered and just wanted a night to himself. I'll never forget how kind he was, though.

Yeah, I'm sure they're all nice dudes, no matter how they dress or what label they're signed to.

JGJR wrote:

SamDBL wrote:I distinctly remember this change over. I don't remember exactly when it happened. But I do remember grouping them with those late 80's pop punk bands like ALL, Doughboys and BDC when they had long hair. Then when they cut it shorter, I immediately got the notion that they were more closer related to Buzzcocks or Undertones. Marketing department totally nailed it.

Ironically, their actual music owes a lot more to Replacements, Husker Du, and their Berkeley peers as well as classic rock stuff like The Who. I don't hear too much of that stuff in GD, personally, although I suppose there is a bit of Buzzcocks/Ramones/Undertones and later Descendents in every subsequent pop-punk group given the Buzzcocks/Ramones influence on HD in particular.

I always thought Green Day was hugely influenced by Stiff Little Fingers... like, I hear waaaay more of that band in GD's music than say, the Replacements or Hüsker Dü.