scannest wrote:I just saw a band cancel their tour that was scheduled to start IN MARCH because of "the recent surge of Omicron cases in the US". That is fucking ridiculous. All evidence from countries that got hit first point to a dramatic decrease in cases in the next coming weeks. And you know what - if you're vaxxed and boosted and wearing masks in crowded indoor spaces, you might still get something. And that something is likely going to feel just like a cold. The flu at worst.
I am done. If SXSW gets canceled for the 3rd year running, I'm going full Fox News on all y'all asses.
Thanks for letting me vent.
xxxMidgexxx wrote:But perhaps I just love drone stuff in general.
scannest wrote:It's like a filmmaker saying "Spielberg is my idol. Every time I get behind the camera I think about how I can make my film as good as Hook"
jaybird wrote:I think at this point, it's up to the people who are severely immuno-compromised, in high risk groups, etc., to take on the bulk of the precautions/safeguards as far as quarantining/staying home, wearing N-95 masks, etc. and let the rest of the world get back to as close as normal as we can. I'm sure it sucks for such people, but society simply cannot continue to function this way indefinitely.
jaybird wrote:I think at this point, it's up to the people who are severely immuno-compromised, in high risk groups, etc., to take on the bulk of the precautions/safeguards as far as quarantining/staying home, wearing N-95 masks, etc. and let the rest of the world get back to as close as normal as we can. I'm sure it sucks for such people, but society simply cannot continue to function this way indefinitely.
scannest wrote:It's like a filmmaker saying "Spielberg is my idol. Every time I get behind the camera I think about how I can make my film as good as Hook"
jaybird wrote:Bottom-line, if you are below the age of 50, and not overweight, and up on your vaccinations/boosters your odds of becoming seriously ill and/or dying from this are very, very low. This is obviously going to be just another risk factor to consider in daily modern life, like driving on the freeway or eating lots of red meat. Time to accept the risk and deal with it, instead of ricocheting back and forth between lockdowns and panic every 6 months.
xxxMidgexxx wrote:But perhaps I just love drone stuff in general.
scannest wrote:jaybird wrote:I think at this point, it's up to the people who are severely immuno-compromised, in high risk groups, etc., to take on the bulk of the precautions/safeguards as far as quarantining/staying home, wearing N-95 masks, etc. and let the rest of the world get back to as close as normal as we can. I'm sure it sucks for such people, but society simply cannot continue to function this way indefinitely.
Yup. If you have concerns because you're high risk or someone you love is - feel free to bow out of things. But canceling everything for everyone "out of an abundance of caution" is ridiculous based on how things are right now. Show your vax card, wear your mask, and take whatever chances you're comfortable taking.
And bands saying, "I would hate for anyone to get sick because we insisted on playing a show!" Doesn't everyone take that same chance every time they attend a show? Should bands stop playing because someone might drive home drunk and crash their car? Or get the flu from the person next to them at the bar?
STATAZIT!
JGJR wrote:jaybird wrote:Bottom-line, if you are below the age of 50, and not overweight, and up on your vaccinations/boosters your odds of becoming seriously ill and/or dying from this are very, very low. This is obviously going to be just another risk factor to consider in daily modern life, like driving on the freeway or eating lots of red meat. Time to accept the risk and deal with it, instead of ricocheting back and forth between lockdowns and panic every 6 months.
That describes a lot fewer people than you probably think. Just saying.
Obesity: COVID’s Third Rail
We’re too fat to fight this virus but not allowed to talk about it.
“Having obesity may triple the risk of hospitalization due to a COVID-19 infection,” the CDC has said. Obesity impairs the immune system, decreases lung capacity and reserve, and can make ventilation more difficult. As body mass index increases, so does the risk of death from COVID-19.
Last month the CDC reported that about 80 percent of those who are hospitalized or die in the U.S. because of COVID-19 are overweight or obese. If you contract the novel coronavirus, you have “50% more likelihood of dying,” a highly-regarded obesity researcher told the medical journal JAMA in an interview, saying his findings “really shook me.” Also in March, the World Obesity Federation reported that almost 90 percent of deaths with COVID-19 in the first year of the pandemic were in countries where more than half of the population is classified as overweight. COVID death rates are 10 times higher in countries where most are overweight. That means you, America!
xxxMidgexxx wrote:But perhaps I just love drone stuff in general.
JGJR wrote:So, in other words, who cares about the fat people and the aging Boomers as long as shows can happen again? Got it.
jaybird wrote:JGJR wrote:So, in other words, who cares about the fat people and the aging Boomers as long as shows can happen again? Got it.
...and schools stay open, and people can travel freely, and more or less resume what's left of their normal lives, but yes, 100%. Time to move the fuck ON.
xxxMidgexxx wrote:But perhaps I just love drone stuff in general.
JGJR wrote:jaybird wrote:JGJR wrote:So, in other words, who cares about the fat people and the aging Boomers as long as shows can happen again? Got it.
...and schools stay open, and people can travel freely, and more or less resume what's left of their normal lives, but yes, 100%. Time to move the fuck ON.
I feel like that some point, that will likely (and hopefully) happen since we're all tired of this, and it likely and could've and should've already happened if (amongst other things) the vax rate would be higher. I feel like I'm saying the unsayable here, but it's kinda the elephant in the room.
jaybird wrote:"Bottom-line, i̶f̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶ ̶a̶r̶e̶ ̶b̶e̶l̶o̶w̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶a̶g̶e̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶5̶0̶,̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶n̶o̶t̶ ̶o̶v̶e̶r̶w̶e̶i̶g̶h̶t̶,̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶u̶p̶ ̶o̶n̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶r̶ ̶v̶a̶c̶c̶i̶n̶a̶t̶i̶o̶n̶s̶/̶b̶o̶o̶s̶t̶e̶r̶s̶ your odds of becoming seriously ill and/or dying from this are very, very low."
xxxMidgexxx wrote:I cant go to work..
The boss is a jerk.
jaybird wrote:JGJR wrote:So, in other words, who cares about the fat people and the aging Boomers as long as shows can happen again? :lol: Got it.
...and schools stay open, and people can travel freely, and more or less resume what's left of their normal lives, but yes, 100%. Time to move the fuck ON.
Knutsen wrote:The question here in Berlin is, which of the lot of venues and clubs will survive. Also the bookers, promotors, stagehands, backline + event agencies. There will be a cleansing and venues will be converted into something else. I already heard that they have problems to find freelance soundguys + crew, because those preferred to get into a regular employment as an electrician, e.g. to pay the rent.
I am happy that our band got 3 open air gigs during last sommer. I can‘t see myself in a full club yet.
fiestaware wrote:jaybird wrote:JGJR wrote:So, in other words, who cares about the fat people and the aging Boomers as long as shows can happen again? Got it.
...and schools stay open, and people can travel freely, and more or less resume what's left of their normal lives, but yes, 100%. Time to move the fuck ON.
Try this rhetoric on your local hospital staff. Let us know how it goes.
Syracuse, N.Y. -- Gov. Kathy Hochul today asked hospitals to start clearly identifying which Covid-19 patients are being treated for the illness and which happened to test positive after coming in for another reason.
Hochul said she has spoke with some hospital officials, who said anecdotally the numbers of people who tested positive after entering the hospital for another reason could be 20% to 50% of listed Covid-19 patients. Some of those people could be asymptomatic or simply have the sniffles, she said.
FlexMyHead wrote:Unlike most of you that are unhappy with wearing a part of t shirt on your mouth, I have elderly parents that I immensely care about and so I put up with some extra bullshit in an attempt to perhaps make sure I don't pass something off to them that could kill them.
There is that quote about judging a person/society/culture by how they treat/look after the young, old, sick and poor, so that is pretty much where I am at when it comes to adjusting to not having cream cheese, Base 4 white paint and live loud music in my ear-holes.
jaybird wrote:FlexMyHead wrote:Unlike most of you that are unhappy with wearing a part of t shirt on your mouth, I have elderly parents that I immensely care about and so I put up with some extra bullshit in an attempt to perhaps make sure I don't pass something off to them that could kill them.
There is that quote about judging a person/society/culture by how they treat/look after the young, old, sick and poor, so that is pretty much where I am at when it comes to adjusting to not having cream cheese, Base 4 white paint and live loud music in my ear-holes.
Yes, you're the only one here who has elderly parents that they care about.
Pandemic worriers shown to have impaired general cognitive abilities
The impairments observed may explain poor decisions about COVID-prevention measures
The COVID-19 pandemic has tested our psychological limits. Some have been more affected than others by the stress of potential illness and the confusion of constantly changing health information and new restrictions. A new study finds the pandemic may have also impaired people’s cognitive abilities and altered risk perception, at a time when making the right health choices is critically important.
Scientists at McGill University and The Neuro (Montreal Neurological Institute-Hospital) surveyed more than 1,500 Americans online from April to June, 2020. Participants were asked to rate their level of worry about the COVID-19 pandemic and complete a battery of psychological tests to measure their basic cognitive abilities like processing and maintaining information in mind. The data were then compared to results of the same tests collected before the pandemic.
For example, participants completed an information processing test where they were asked to match pairs of digits and symbols according to a fixed rule. Participants’ risk attitudes were measured using an economic decision task where they made a series of hypothetical choices between a ‘certain’ option (e.g., a sure win of $75), and a ‘risky’ option (e.g. a 25 per cent chance of winning $0 and a 75 per cent chance of winning $100).
The researchers found that those who experienced more pandemic-related worry had reduced information processing speed, ability to retain information needed to perform tasks, and heightened sensitivity to the odds they were given when taking risks. The pandemic group performed more poorly on the simple cognitive tasks than the pre-pandemic group. Also, participants in the last wave of data collection showed slower processing speed, lower ability to maintain goals in mind, and were more sensitive to risk than those in the first wave.
Interestingly, the study found that pandemic worry predicted individuals’ tendency to distort described risk levels: underweighting likely probabilities and overweighting unlikely probabilities. This suggests that worry related to COVID may have affected people’s decision-making style, which is crucial as it may influence people’s decisions about getting a COVID-19 vaccine.
“The basic cognitive abilities measured here are crucial for healthy daily living and decision-making,” says Kevin da Silva Castanheira, a graduate student in McGill’s Department of Psychology and the study’s first author. “The impairments associated with worry observed here suggest that under periods of high stress, like a global pandemic, our ability to think, plan, an evaluate risks is altered. Understanding these changes are critical as managing stressful situations often relies on these abilities.”
FlexMyHead wrote:Unlike most of you that are unhappy with wearing a part of t shirt on your mouth, I have elderly parents that I immensely care about and so I put up with some extra bullshit in an attempt to perhaps make sure I don't pass something off to them that could kill them.
kel wrote:I care very much for my elders, and if they don't think they should go out or whatever, then 100% support them in that decision. Traveling around a lot of free states this past year, though -- I'd say that I've noticed a LOT of older people just out taking walks, shopping, going about their business, and not cowering in fear. Good for them.
Gotta smile at tough old dudes with an attitude like "If Vietnam didn't kill me with Agent Orange or Commie bullets, some flu bug ain't gonna stop me from getting to that Early Bird dinner special!" and more power to 'em. Live those golden years and enjoy life if you choose to do so. At that age, I see a lot of people choosing for themselves... whatever's gonna be, is gonna be.
jaybird wrote:
Yes, you're the only one here who has elderly parents that they care about.
jaybird wrote:fiestaware wrote:jaybird wrote:JGJR wrote:So, in other words, who cares about the fat people and the aging Boomers as long as shows can happen again? :lol: Got it.
...and schools stay open, and people can travel freely, and more or less resume what's left of their normal lives, but yes, 100%. Time to move the fuck ON.
Try this rhetoric on your local hospital staff. Let us know how it goes.
Indeed, seems they may have some 'splainin to do:
fiestaware wrote:jaybird wrote:fiestaware wrote:jaybird wrote:JGJR wrote:So, in other words, who cares about the fat people and the aging Boomers as long as shows can happen again? Got it.
...and schools stay open, and people can travel freely, and more or less resume what's left of their normal lives, but yes, 100%. Time to move the fuck ON.
Try this rhetoric on your local hospital staff. Let us know how it goes.
Indeed, seems they may have some 'splainin to do:
Weak tea.
Watching just plain folks flirt with casual social darwinism as a byproduct of their pandemic fatigue has become a real drag.
I’ve lost some friends to COVID, but I also lost friends to their own selfishness. No shaming intended here - it's just sad.
FlexMyHead wrote:jaybird wrote:
Yes, you're the only one here who has elderly parents that they care about.
Did you get an anti-sarcasm-detection vaccine as well?
jaybird wrote:
Sorry, I didn't notice it buried beneath all the moral preening in the rest of your post.
SamDBL wrote:I don’t even know why new case rates are relevant in any of these discussions about what our operating procedure should look like. Death rates, or gtfo.
xxxMidgexxx wrote:But perhaps I just love drone stuff in general.
jaybird wrote:I think it's just a matter of facing facts... lockdowns were a necessary emergency measure when no vaccine was available.
jaybird wrote:Continue indefinitely recurring lockdowns because 40% of the country are willful idiots?
kel wrote:jaybird wrote:I think it's just a matter of facing facts... lockdowns were a necessary emergency measure when no vaccine was available.
See above Amish approach where the facts got faced in different ways, and perhaps could lend legitimacy to the debate of lockdowns weren't necessary. But that's all hypothetical: damage is done by governments and maybe it was good maybe it was bad, but there's no fruit in coulda-shoulda-woulda, other than to learn for the future and to inform us all that trusting the government is almost never agood plan.
The shots pharma is pushing don't work as advertised, proven by stats as well as by everyone on this very thread that says "Everyone I know with COVID is vaxxed and boosted".jaybird wrote:Continue indefinitely recurring lockdowns because 40% of the country are willful idiots?
Idiots. Yep. They all must be "Idiots" with no good reasons not to get a shot that doesn't work, followed by another that doesn't work, followed by boosters that aren't boosting, but are causing CDC-admitted problems including death... A lot of people think that the idiots are the people that thump "science" and the "truth" without actually knowing it, forcing others into their medical choices through coercion and threats to their livelihoods -- then sticking to the agenda even after being proven wrong.
jaybird wrote:LOL...there is zero doubt that the vaccines are extremely effective at reducing death rates and the need for extended hospitalization. Like no serious medical/scientific debate whatsoever. If people who are not otherwise immunocompromised want to continue to refuse a widely available and proven safeguard against serious illness and/or death, I do think that is their right, but I also think that yes, they are idiots.
The Amish angle is interesting, but given that the Amish are already naturally "quarantined" so to speak from wider US society as a consequence of their religious beliefs and practices, I'm not sure that the experience of that community with COVID can legitimately be extrapolated across wider US society.
xxxMidgexxx wrote:But perhaps I just love drone stuff in general.
JGJR wrote:jaybird wrote:LOL...there is zero doubt that the vaccines are extremely effective at reducing death rates and the need for extended hospitalization. Like no serious medical/scientific debate whatsoever. If people who are not otherwise immunocompromised want to continue to refuse a widely available and proven safeguard against serious illness and/or death, I do think that is their right, but I also think that yes, they are idiots.
The Amish angle is interesting, but given that the Amish are already naturally "quarantined" so to speak from wider US society as a consequence of their religious beliefs and practices, I'm not sure that the experience of that community with COVID can legitimately be extrapolated across wider US society.
We don't often agree completely on these matters, but this is so good that I'm tempted to make it my signature. And you pretty much read my mind about the Amish. They are by and large insulated from much of the outside world (though I interacted with them weekly at farmers' markets in PA because they bring their produce and other things there) and thus their own bubble.
jaybird wrote:Also pretty obvious in that Amish video that the interviewer and the Amish representative are staying 6' away from each other... ...the Amish rep guy also admits that everyone in his community got the corona virus after all drinking from the same Communion cup @1:50. So I'm not sure why kel thinks this is some big "gotcha" revelation... the Amish are probably generally healthier overall than the typical American...
kel wrote:jaybird wrote:Also pretty obvious in that Amish video that the interviewer and the Amish representative are staying 6' away from each other... ...the Amish rep guy also admits that everyone in his community got the corona virus after all drinking from the same Communion cup @1:50. So I'm not sure why kel thinks this is some big "gotcha" revelation... the Amish are probably generally healthier overall than the typical American...
Clarification: I'm not saying it's a "gotcha" revelation. I'm noting that this particular sample of a population group had a different way of addressing the virus, and it -apparently- worked out to the same death rates as the hand-wringing crowds. That data point was just offered as an interesting alternative outcome to the trillions spent, lives wasted, anger-flames fanned, etc. of the pro-coercion/big pharma/government heavy-handedness approach that was claimed to work in the post above. Did lockdowns "work"? I don't see it in the evidence, but understand that we can't go back in time and prove either opinion out. All people will do is blame whoever is on the other side of their faith-based conclusion, and there's no fruit in that.
(Side note: Sure, Amish folks are probably on the healthier side because hard-physical-work and antibodies reasons, but... they have unusually high cholesterol and eat high fat like biscuits & gravy were going out of style. That Amish guy looked like he could stand to lose a few pounds They also regularly interact with outside civilization through markets and in-town shopping, etc. This isn't like some study of a remote island populated with crossfitters that haven't seen outsiders for decades. I'd also bet the six-foot interview distance was instigated by the reporter, not the Amish guy.)
It's an individual's choice to get shots or not, rely on natural antibodies or not, go to concerts or not, wear a mask or not, etc. - all fine.
Coercing someone else into a forced medical experiment by threatening their livelihood and freedom is evil.
In the end, while my above post was a bit rushed, I'd update to clarify that my actual hope and aim would be to promote two points:
1.) Dehumanizing fellow human population segments by dismissing them as 'idiots' is a technique to debase an enemy. This makes it easier to sell future war, slavery, denial of rights, confiscation of property, and increases the ease in escalating atrocities onto these 'subhumans'. A kind word turns away wrath and bringing civility to a debate helps one's viewpoints to be considered with respect.
2.) History often proves out that trusting the State (gov't / media / pharma) was generally more dangerous than questioning authority.
It even used to be punk to do so!
jaybird wrote:I agree with the larger point about lockdowns. Their efficacy is mixed at best in regard to the United States... However, there is evidence that more strict and comprehensive lockdowns had better results in other countries, but such drastic measures would be a complete non-starter here:
https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-fact ... SKBN2842WS
I also agree that the Amish do have some contact with wider society through farmer's markets and the like... however they generally do not engage in many of the activities that the average American does as far as things like concerts, mass sporting events, protests, political rallies(lol), going to bars/restaurants and the like, that are more likely routes for respiratory disease transmission. They are also known to be somewhat reluctant to avail themselves of modern medical treatments, vaccination schedules, regular testing, etc., so who really knows what the actual data are in regard to that demographic? But again, it's a mixed bag, and I think it's unlikely that you can draw firm conclusions either way regarding the Amish community and their experience with COVID-19.
As for my usage of the term 'idiot" for people who still refuse to get vaccinated at this late date, I think it's a basic, convenient shorthand for expressing related descriptors such as "short-sighted", "foolish" "selfish", "pig-headed/stubborn" etc. Perhaps "idiot" is too harsh, but I'm open to any/all of the other options I've listed. I'm flexible. But simply as a matter of message-board debate ethics, I do think "idiot" is well-within the accepted bounds of typical internet discourse.
And while it is admirable and worthwhile to regularly question authority on matters of grave import concerning civil liberties, public health and the like, there does eventually come a time when the weight of evidence starts to conclusively tip the scales in one direction or another. I think it's plain to see that the weight of evidence is firmly and clearly on the side of the benefits of getting vaccinated against COVID-19. Or, as another noted internet pundit has astutely observed; "Facts don't care about your feelings".
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