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Obviously 2 bands that stand out from the '80's scene.However, when I think of this brief time in "music history"..i think of neither..Honestly, I love both bands..But for me, Its Breakdown, SOIA..Sheer Terror, Straight Ahead, Side By Side, Judge.Underdog..Lifes Blood..and.countless others...

sorry folks..had my mind set on that particular time when posting this thread.Lets not forget Ism.Kraut..The Mob ..Cause For Alarm..and the like..

Victim in Pain has pretty much always been the pinnacle of NYHC for me. The closest I got to the REV generation was the Crippled Youth EP.

version sound wrote:Victim in Pain has pretty much always been the pinnacle of NYHC for me. The closest I got to the REV generation was the Crippled Youth EP.

I like that record as well VS( Crippled youth..later Bold)..also agree with the AF reference but so many other records/demos that I like also...Remember the Biohazard demo?

I LOVE the last BOLD 7". Best thing those guys did.

As for NYHC I mean...VIP is classic, as is Age of Quarrel. Both are flawless NYHC records. Oftentimes my favorite of the bunch is Sheer Terror though. Amazing band musically and ESPECIALLY lyrically.

AF were definitely 1000000x better than Cro-Mags. It's no secret I think the Cro-Mags is one of the most overrated bands in history.

MXV wrote:AF were definitely 1000000x better than Cro-Mags. It's no secret I think the Cro-Mags is one of the most overrated bands in history.

Based on the fact that they only have one great album, one good and the rest EH, I can see this.

But to me, AOQ is a perfect record start to finish which is very rare for that style.

gregpolard wrote:I LOVE the last BOLD 7". Best thing those guys did.

As for NYHC I mean...VIP is classic, as is Age of Quarrel. Both are flawless NYHC records. Oftentimes my favorite of the bunch is Sheer Terror though. Amazing band musically and ESPECIALLY lyrically.

I couldn't have said it better myself. I will add that those are the only Lps that I like by AF and The Cro-Mags, too.

Not fair since I only sort of like both those bands...and they are both guilty of sucking for far far longer
then their collective very very short heyday.

Gun to head? Cro Mags demo tape

My NYHC picks:

Nihilistics
A.O.D.
Reagan Youth
Cause For Alarm
Urban Waste
Kraut
The Mad
SFA
Citizens Arrest
Yuppiecide
Born Against
GO!
Token Entry.

That whole jock youthwave from Westchester county and Connecticut is its own category

In H.S., I would've said that that AF's Live at CBGB album was the pinnacle of NYHC.

Now, I'd probably go with Victim in Pain. Cro Mag's AOQ rules, but I listen to it a lot less these days than I used to. I also like Warzone's first album a lot.

By A.O.D. do you mean Adrenalin OD? I thought they were from NJ? Fun band, Humongousfungus is a minor classic.

I'm also a big fan of the Urban Waste e.p.

gregpolard wrote:

MXV wrote:AF were definitely 1000000x better than Cro-Mags. It's no secret I think the Cro-Mags is one of the most overrated bands in history.

Based on the fact that they only have one great album, one good and the rest EH, I can see this.

They also had a great first EP. Stigma gets extra points for calling me on the phone to sell me a copy.

I consider AOD as much a NYC band as a suburban NJHC band...they might be
the only band adopted by both NYC and CT.

Cro-Mags, to me, sounds like a band doing their best Bad Brains imitation.

Did it work? Yeah I think they pulled it off well...not as good as Jingo de Lunch did (the blueprint for them being "I Against I")
but Cro-Mags did their version of the RIOR tape then went straight into Motorhead territory

tango fistula wrote:I consider AOD as much a NYC band as a suburban NJHC band...they might be
the only band adopted by both NYC and CT.

Cro-Mags, to me, sounds like a band doing their best Bad Brains imitation.

Did it work? Yeah I think they pulled it off well...not as good as Jingo de Lunch did (the blueprint for them being "I Against I")
but Cro-Mags did their version of the RIOR tape then went straight into Motorhead territory

See, I think what makes AOQ great is that they COMBINED elements of both the ROIR tape and Motorhead. After that, they went into generic thrash metal.

clash77 wrote:

version sound wrote:Victim in Pain has pretty much always been the pinnacle of NYHC for me. The closest I got to the REV generation was the Crippled Youth EP.

I like that record as well VS( Crippled youth..later Bold)..also agree with the AF reference but so many other records/demos that I like also...Remember the Biohazard demo?

I remember the Biohazard demo.....they were still a little bit in their White Power phase at that point. The band that officially ruined everything about NYHC....and don't get me started on their poser DMS fans.....

My top five NYHC records:

Cro-Mags- Age of Quarrel
AF- Victim In Pain
Gorilla Biscuits- Start Today
Damage- Live at CBGB
Bad Brains- Roir cassette

drew wrote:

clash77 wrote:

version sound wrote:Victim in Pain has pretty much always been the pinnacle of NYHC for me. The closest I got to the REV generation was the Crippled Youth EP.

I like that record as well VS( Crippled youth..later Bold)..also agree with the AF reference but so many other records/demos that I like also...Remember the Biohazard demo?

I remember the Biohazard demo.....they were still a little bit in their White Power phase at that point. The band that officially ruined everything about NYHC....and don't get me started on their poser DMS fans.....

I always thought the WP rep the band got was bullshit" I never saw them that way..Two of the members are Jewish so I think that whole thing was overhyped..

clash77 wrote:

drew wrote:

clash77 wrote:

version sound wrote:Victim in Pain has pretty much always been the pinnacle of NYHC for me. The closest I got to the REV generation was the Crippled Youth EP.

I like that record as well VS( Crippled youth..later Bold)..also agree with the AF reference but so many other records/demos that I like also...Remember the Biohazard demo?

I remember the Biohazard demo.....they were still a little bit in their White Power phase at that point. The band that officially ruined everything about NYHC....and don't get me started on their poser DMS fans.....

I always thought the WP rep the band got was bullshit" I never saw them that way..Two of the members are Jewish so I think that whole thing was overhyped..

I've never actually heard the supposed "racist" demo, I kinda always assumed it was blown out of proportion too.

JGJR wrote:See, I think what makes AOQ great is that they COMBINED elements of both the ROIR tape and Motorhead. After that, they went into generic thrash metal.

Go back and listen the the ROIR tape, it's pretty heavy on it's own, especially for early HC. I don't hear much Motorhead in AOQ, just some standard moshcore. Motorhead were never mosh-y.

gregpolard wrote:

clash77 wrote:

drew wrote:

clash77 wrote:

version sound wrote:Victim in Pain has pretty much always been the pinnacle of NYHC for me. The closest I got to the REV generation was the Crippled Youth EP.

I like that record as well VS( Crippled youth..later Bold)..also agree with the AF reference but so many other records/demos that I like also...Remember the Biohazard demo?

I remember the Biohazard demo.....they were still a little bit in their White Power phase at that point. The band that officially ruined everything about NYHC....and don't get me started on their poser DMS fans.....

I always thought the WP rep the band got was bullshit" I never saw them that way..Two of the members are Jewish so I think that whole thing was overhyped..

I've never actually heard the supposed "racist" demo, I kinda always assumed it was blown out of proportion too.

it was a gimmick since they were really into carnivore and were trying to jump on the shock that band and NYHC and ny metal created. i don't even think evan seinfeld changed his name for the demo. there were two songs called master race and america, and one used some line about nazi pride or something. the rip of the demo is up on youtube(which is really bad, btw). i am guessing like most bands of the time they attracted some real nazi skins at the time regardless of their beliefs, but that was the same for AF and the mags too.

version sound wrote:

JGJR wrote:See, I think what makes AOQ great is that they COMBINED elements of both the ROIR tape and Motorhead. After that, they went into generic thrash metal.

Go back and listen the the ROIR tape, it's pretty heavy on it's own, especially for early HC. I don't hear much Motorhead in AOQ, just some standard moshcore. Motorhead were never mosh-y.

if you can imagine songs like bomber sped up, you can hear some influence the mags took from them, but the main thing they took away from MH was the up front distorted bass sound, and that was more harley's doing than anything else. you can also hear a lot of geezer in his playing too. mags were def the white bad brains, but they were a lot heavier and did their own thing, and flirted with a metal sound BB would only even start to mess with 5 years later with quickness.

drew wrote:

clash77 wrote:

version sound wrote:Victim in Pain has pretty much always been the pinnacle of NYHC for me. The closest I got to the REV generation was the Crippled Youth EP.

I like that record as well VS( Crippled youth..later Bold)..also agree with the AF reference but so many other records/demos that I like also...Remember the Biohazard demo?

I remember the Biohazard demo.....they were still a little bit in their White Power phase at that point. The band that officially ruined everything about NYHC....and don't get me started on their poser DMS fans.....

yeah dude, DMS was kind of the end of it all. there were some good bands in the early and mid 90s(esp if you were into metallic hardcore), but i have heard way too many stories of guys carrying guns to like burn and SOIA shows and having the guys in the bands take it off of them so the show could happen without incident. plus with the smaller clubs refusing to do hc shows anymore and the takeover of the bigger clubs, it seemed like the nail in the coffin for that scene.

drew wrote:

clash77 wrote:

version sound wrote:Victim in Pain has pretty much always been the pinnacle of NYHC for me. The closest I got to the REV generation was the Crippled Youth EP.

I like that record as well VS( Crippled youth..later Bold)..also agree with the AF reference but so many other records/demos that I like also...Remember the Biohazard demo?

I remember the Biohazard demo.....they were still a little bit in their White Power phase at that point. The band that officially ruined everything about NYHC....and don't get me started on their poser DMS fans.....

I do agree with you about the DMS douchbags..

I'll go with Agnostic Front. I like their first two records a lot.

xxxHunterxxx wrote:I'll go with Agnostic Front. I like their first two records a lot.

Same here. I like AOQ, but it's not my favorite HC album by a long shot.

I'm going with Agnostic Front,but it's the closest possible.

STIGMA!!!

xxxHunterxxx wrote:I'll go with Agnostic Front. I like their first two records a lot.

I don't recall hearing you talk about them in your USA hardcore podcast series.

For AF, I actually like the second album, best. The first cro mags album is great. Like, outstanding. But I never liked anything after that.
I really like the first sheer terror album, too. Musically, it sounds a lot like Celtic Frost.
Also, that first rest in pieces album is really good.
And gorilla biscuits.

SamDBL wrote:For AF, I actually like the second album, best.

Except for that 1 little song.........LMAO
I think they were Donohue or something....?

xxxMidgexxx wrote:

SamDBL wrote:For AF, I actually like the second album, best.

Except for that 1 litttle song.........LMAO

Were all the lyrics written by the dude from Carnivore? Or just some of them?

SamDBL wrote:

xxxMidgexxx wrote:

SamDBL wrote:For AF, I actually like the second album, best.

Except for that 1 litttle song.........LMAO

Were all the lyrics written by the dude from Carnivore? Or just some of them?

Just that one song 'Public Assistance' was written by Pete Steel. It didn't say anything about color, though the PC people would try to spin it that way.
It did however take aim at anyone on welfare. Calling them lazy. They all knew it would stir up shit.

But I was shocked that Roger put his voice to it. I knew him from shows and interviews and I remember this giving AF a lot of controversy.

Whatevs. It was over 30 years and AF haven't played it to my knowledge especially since they're in very good favor with a TON of bands we know where their heads are at.

Remember when Descendents did 'Suburban Home'? They've edited the lyric on their own accord and I think AF did too.

Nuff said. It's been covered on this board at least 4 or 5 times already. Roger is a very decent human being.

I didn't know until last night that Freddy Madball was Roger's brother. Read it in one of the early chapters of NYHC book.

lewdd wrote:I didn't know until last night that Freddy Madball was Roger's brother. Read it in one of the early chapters of NYHC book.

I don't think they're literal brothers....are they?

Yes, Freddie is Roger’s much younger brother. Freddie briefly played in Mental Floss, a hardcore band Dave Jones (drummer on Victim In Pain) put together. It was like a continuation of Mental Abuse. The song “it’s my life” on the first Madball EP was actually a song Mental Floss did.



Here’s a nice 12” Mike from the Nihilistics put together. Paul Bearer did vocals in this band pre-recording.



Here’s XKI covering “Bombs Away” originally done by Stigma’s old band the Eliminators.

xxxMidgexxx wrote:

SamDBL wrote:

xxxMidgexxx wrote:

SamDBL wrote:For AF, I actually like the second album, best.

Except for that 1 litttle song.........LMAO

Were all the lyrics written by the dude from Carnivore? Or just some of them?

Just that one song 'Public Assistance' was written by Pete Steel. It didn't say anything about color, though the PC people would try to spin it that way.
It did however take aim at anyone on welfare. Calling them lazy. They all knew it would stir up shit.

But I was shocked that Roger put his voice to it. I knew him from shows and interviews and I remember this giving AF a lot of controversy.

Whatevs. It was over 30 years and AF haven't played it to my knowledge especially since they're in very good favor with a TON of bands we know where their heads are at.

Remember when Descendents did 'Suburban Home'? They've edited the lyric on their own accord and I think AF did too.

Nuff said. It's been covered on this board at least 4 or 5 times already. Roger is a very decent human being.

He certainly is. The bass player dude is really mellow, too. When I was younger, I couldn’t quite get a handle on the hardcore skinhead thing. I knew there were ‘traditional’ non racist sharpies skins, and obviously nazi skins, but the AF nyhc skinhead thing seemed kind of in between. Totally copping the imagery with the docs, suspenders, and occasional iron cross. But the politics were hard to pinpoint. Maybe conservative, but not racist/fascist?

haha....fucking NYC poser didnt even know the story of Freddy Madball.

One of my FAVORITE Roger moments was at the Kat Klub for THE ABSOLUTE most violent GG Allin show ever.

A lot of tougher NY hardcore guys were hanging by the stage talking about whatever. I was in this conversational circle with Ray Cappo, Roger, I think Porcell and Harley.
We're chatting and GG is drunk, 2/3 naked and walking around the club holding hands under his leg so as not to crap on the floor.

So we asked GG 'whats going on, are you alright? His response was yeah, I gotta diar terribly but I'm holding it in for the stage. We all that it was hilarious. Roger and Ray, etc..bust out laughing.

And the show goes on. And GG lets it ALL loose on the stage for the 2nd song...and scoops it up and charges the little group that we were in. I'm paying attention as much as possible, but Roger is laser focused on the stage and he yells out really loud...

"HEADS UP, HE CHARGING THIS WAY!!! The place stunk so bad and there blood and broken glass....and our little conversational circle breaks up immediately and scatters in all directions, knocking people over. The bouncers were powerless. Finally, they cut the power and call the cops, but the sickos that WE were, we wound up in the streets, safe...and then slowly start laughing our guts out.

A few years later when I had Roger on my college radio show, I asked him; do you remember when we knocked everyone down as GG charged us.
And he TOTALLY remembered me....OH MY GOD, that's right...you were there. AND WE LAUGHED our brains out again.

Victim in Pain will ALWAYS be my favorite ever. Unfolding the cassette sleeve with the handwritten lyrics...

That made me want to start a band. And Black Flag.

I am still looking for the Cromags/Plasmatics split 10“ .

AF for Victim In Pain.

Aside from that, both are boneheaded garbage.