akissfan wrote:Thoughts?
xxxMidgexxx wrote:But perhaps I just love drone stuff in general.
version sound wrote:I'll take Frisco.
john stabb wrote:All of the sudden these writers want to write these worship Black Flag pieces like they just discovered this cool band from the early 80's just the other day. And The Doors I'll take Lou over that crap. Ramones, Talking Heads & Blondie (or Television, for that matter) were never a dangerous Punk band but it doesn't mean they sucked. Cool bands, nonetheless. I bet you this writer just wants to prove how cool they are for even mentioning all these groups.
xxxMidgexxx wrote:But perhaps I just love drone stuff in general.
JGJR wrote:
And let's not pretend that the mosh pit was ever a good thing. One thing I don't like about LA punk is the jockishness/thugishness of the HB crowd that replaced dancing/pogoing with hitting people.
Opinionated enough for you?
dave123 wrote:JGJR wrote:
And let's not pretend that the mosh pit was ever a good thing. One thing I don't like about LA punk is the jockishness/thugishness of the HB crowd that replaced dancing/pogoing with hitting people.
Opinionated enough for you?
Yep, opinionated enough;) I can't agree though. I wouldn't have stayed interested in hardcore punk if the HB crew hadn't "jocked/thugged" it up or if the "mosh pit" hadn't replaced the pogo. I will admit it, as a kid, I leaned way more to the jock side of things to the art side. If there wasn't violence or some "pit" to do flips into, I would have been long gone. Then again, if I wasn't playing football (soccer) or skateboarding, I was probably throwing rocks through windows. My friends and I were spoiled kids from the suburbs hell bent on chaos and annihilation, and we needed a soundtrack. We hated punks and gave them a hard time. We hated the artpunks and goths even more, and gave them a really hard time. There was not much of this "one scene" thing, and it was mutual, the old punks and artsy crowd hated us. Pogoing/dancing... c'mon. It was way more exciting to stage dive and be part of the fun. Blood was essential. Broken bones, even better. Just saying.
xxxMidgexxx wrote:But perhaps I just love drone stuff in general.
JGJR wrote:dave123 wrote:JGJR wrote:
And let's not pretend that the mosh pit was ever a good thing. One thing I don't like about LA punk is the jockishness/thugishness of the HB crowd that replaced dancing/pogoing with hitting people.
Opinionated enough for you?
Yep, opinionated enough;) I can't agree though. I wouldn't have stayed interested in hardcore punk if the HB crew hadn't "jocked/thugged" it up or if the "mosh pit" hadn't replaced the pogo. I will admit it, as a kid, I leaned way more to the jock side of things to the art side. If there wasn't violence or some "pit" to do flips into, I would have been long gone. Then again, if I wasn't playing football (soccer) or skateboarding, I was probably throwing rocks through windows. My friends and I were spoiled kids from the suburbs hell bent on chaos and annihilation, and we needed a soundtrack. We hated punks and gave them a hard time. We hated the artpunks and goths even more, and gave them a really hard time. There was not much of this "one scene" thing, and it was mutual, the old punks and artsy crowd hated us. Pogoing/dancing... c'mon. It was way more exciting to stage dive and be part of the fun. Blood was essential. Broken bones, even better. Just saying.
See, the whole thing is that mentality led to more and more ridiculous violence, people going to shows with their gang, bringing guns to shows, diving off of speakers and folks generally going there to hurt people instead of hearing the music and hanging out. Most punks, etc. got into as kids to get away from that sort of jock mentality, so of course it was disturbing. And sorry, but I don't think it's fun to have anyone land on me or to jump on people.
With all that said, though, I think the scene I came out (early '90s DIY hardcore/punk) was a complete and total reaction to that '80s NYHC (or HB) type mentality (though obviously it was prevalent in other places, too) though of course it was a continuation of the same thread of music. It got to be too ridiculous, too, though, with folks sitting on the floor and afraid to show any kind of enthusiasm. There should be some middle ground.
I know we won't agree on this, but I just want to make my point of view on this clear.
JGJR wrote:dave123 wrote:JGJR wrote:
And let's not pretend that the mosh pit was ever a good thing. One thing I don't like about LA punk is the jockishness/thugishness of the HB crowd that replaced dancing/pogoing with hitting people.
Opinionated enough for you?
Yep, opinionated enough;) I can't agree though. I wouldn't have stayed interested in hardcore punk if the HB crew hadn't "jocked/thugged" it up or if the "mosh pit" hadn't replaced the pogo. I will admit it, as a kid, I leaned way more to the jock side of things to the art side. If there wasn't violence or some "pit" to do flips into, I would have been long gone. Then again, if I wasn't playing football (soccer) or skateboarding, I was probably throwing rocks through windows. My friends and I were spoiled kids from the suburbs hell bent on chaos and annihilation, and we needed a soundtrack. We hated punks and gave them a hard time. We hated the artpunks and goths even more, and gave them a really hard time. There was not much of this "one scene" thing, and it was mutual, the old punks and artsy crowd hated us. Pogoing/dancing... c'mon. It was way more exciting to stage dive and be part of the fun. Blood was essential. Broken bones, even better. Just saying.
See, the whole thing is that mentality led to more and more ridiculous violence, people going to shows with their gang, bringing guns to shows, diving off of speakers and folks generally going there to hurt people instead of hearing the music and hanging out. Most punks, etc. got into as kids to get away from that sort of jock mentality, so of course it was disturbing. And sorry, but I don't think it's fun to have anyone land on me or to jump on people.
With all that said, though, I think the scene I came out (early '90s DIY hardcore/punk) was a complete and total reaction to that '80s NYHC (or HB) type mentality (though obviously it was prevalent in other places, too) though of course it was a continuation of the same thread of music. It got to be too ridiculous, too, though, with folks sitting on the floor and afraid to show any kind of enthusiasm. There should be some middle ground.
I know we won't agree on this, but I just want to make my point of view on this clear.
dave123 wrote:JGJR wrote:dave123 wrote:JGJR wrote:
And let's not pretend that the mosh pit was ever a good thing. One thing I don't like about LA punk is the jockishness/thugishness of the HB crowd that replaced dancing/pogoing with hitting people.
Opinionated enough for you?
Yep, opinionated enough;) I can't agree though. I wouldn't have stayed interested in hardcore punk if the HB crew hadn't "jocked/thugged" it up or if the "mosh pit" hadn't replaced the pogo. I will admit it, as a kid, I leaned way more to the jock side of things to the art side. If there wasn't violence or some "pit" to do flips into, I would have been long gone. Then again, if I wasn't playing football (soccer) or skateboarding, I was probably throwing rocks through windows. My friends and I were spoiled kids from the suburbs hell bent on chaos and annihilation, and we needed a soundtrack. We hated punks and gave them a hard time. We hated the artpunks and goths even more, and gave them a really hard time. There was not much of this "one scene" thing, and it was mutual, the old punks and artsy crowd hated us. Pogoing/dancing... c'mon. It was way more exciting to stage dive and be part of the fun. Blood was essential. Broken bones, even better. Just saying.
See, the whole thing is that mentality led to more and more ridiculous violence, people going to shows with their gang, bringing guns to shows, diving off of speakers and folks generally going there to hurt people instead of hearing the music and hanging out. Most punks, etc. got into as kids to get away from that sort of jock mentality, so of course it was disturbing. And sorry, but I don't think it's fun to have anyone land on me or to jump on people.
With all that said, though, I think the scene I came out (early '90s DIY hardcore/punk) was a complete and total reaction to that '80s NYHC (or HB) type mentality (though obviously it was prevalent in other places, too) though of course it was a continuation of the same thread of music. It got to be too ridiculous, too, though, with folks sitting on the floor and afraid to show any kind of enthusiasm. There should be some middle ground.
I know we won't agree on this, but I just want to make my point of view on this clear.
I hear you. I wasn't condoning the violence or jumping on peoples heads. In fact, I was doing the opposite. The early hardcore punk scene was insane and wrong just like vandalism is wrong. But it was exciting for a kid. You had serious maniacs hanging with drag queens hanging with meat-head skinheads hanging with drugged out freaks and a few adolescent skateboarders like myself. Nothing made sense and because of that, it was crazy and fun like your first ollie down a flight of stairs or dropping in on a vert ramp for the first time. Sure you might get hurt, but that element of "not knowing" attracted me to the whole thing and kept me coming back as a young teenager. You are right though, violence and jumping on peoples' heads is wrong, but that element of hardcore punk is what kept my young self coming back for more.
The scene you came into was a lot different. In some ways, it was cool just in a different way. Lots of good discussions were undertaken about some awesome topics. People were pushing things to the limits with animal rights, feminism, etc. The music was interesting and not as formulaic (which was not always a good thing). Was it exciting? In some ways sure, but I don't know if the 13 year old me would have thought so. It was more thought provoking and safe. Which caused a later reaction with bands like OLC and even Ink & Dagger lashing out against the weird holier than thou attitudes that were being adopted. I saw some of the best shows ever during this time and some of the worst... (it would be torture to watch Still Life play again but I had a great time seeing Mineral at a house show in Gainesville and Los Crudos in North Dakota). However, it was more a scene for intellectuals and college types rather than you average knuckle dragging street freak. Oh well...
dave123 wrote:The scene you came into was a lot different. In some ways, it was cool just in a different way. Lots of good discussions were undertaken about some awesome topics. People were pushing things to the limits with animal rights, feminism, etc. The music was interesting and not as formulaic (which was not always a good thing). Was it exciting? In some ways sure, but I don't know if the 13 year old me would have thought so. It was more thought provoking and safe. Which caused a later reaction with bands like OLC and even Ink & Dagger lashing out against the weird holier than thou attitudes that were being adopted. I saw some of the best shows ever during this time and some of the worst... (it would be torture to watch Still Life play again but I had a great time seeing Mineral at a house show in Gainesville and Los Crudos in North Dakota). However, it was more a scene for intellectuals and college types rather than you average knuckle dragging street freak. Oh well...
xxxMidgexxx wrote:But perhaps I just love drone stuff in general.
yourenotevil wrote:i don't think you can blame moshing on L.A.
xxxMidgexxx wrote:But perhaps I just love drone stuff in general.
JGJR wrote:yourenotevil wrote:i don't think you can blame moshing on L.A.
It's pretty well documented that it started out as the HB strut and the DC guys took it back to the East Coast (and eventually up to New York at a Black Flag show at Peppermint Lounge) when Teen Idles went out there.
I'm not saying that some other similar place wouldn't have come up with it, but that's just the facts.
yourenotevil wrote:JGJR wrote:yourenotevil wrote:i don't think you can blame moshing on L.A.
It's pretty well documented that it started out as the HB strut and the DC guys took it back to the East Coast (and eventually up to New York at a Black Flag show at Peppermint Lounge) when Teen Idles went out there.
I'm not saying that some other similar place wouldn't have come up with it, but that's just the facts.
like i said, it's nothing to be ashamed of! i know the stuff about the teen idles and everything, but i still wonder about early motorhead and maiden shows. the music was fast and i am not sure everyone was just pogo-ing to that stuff.
dave123 wrote:I have no idea what early Motorhead and Iron Maiden club level shows were like, but at the arena level, things were pretty tame... fists in the air type stuff. I did see Motorhead years later in a small club and had a blast on their "dancefloor". I was pushing the metal heads pretty hard and thought I might get beaten a few times, but they seemed to take it in stride when I started banging their heads for them and climbing on top of people. It was pretty fun.
The first time I saw Slayer was a different kettle of fish. I can't remember the tour, but it was after Reign In Blood. There was a big circle pit with a hefty number of nazi bone heads in attendance. That was a serious bruise fest. People were literally just beating each other. I could only take a few minutes here and there. Navigating that show was weird because of the boneheads meandering around in packs. They would scowl at the few hardcore kids in attendance. We would get lost in the crowd. That's how the night went. They opened with Reign in Blood and it was the sonic highlight of my entire show going life. Musical perfection.
Anyone see Motorhead or Iron Maiden in a small setting?
xxxMidgexxx wrote:But perhaps I just love drone stuff in general.
JGJR wrote:my impression is that the metalheads in the 80's got pretty much everything from hardcore
Welly wrote:JGJR wrote:my impression is that the metalheads in the 80's got pretty much everything from hardcore
Fixed.
xxxMidgexxx wrote:But perhaps I just love drone stuff in general.
JGJR wrote:dave123 wrote:I have no idea what early Motorhead and Iron Maiden club level shows were like, but at the arena level, things were pretty tame... fists in the air type stuff. I did see Motorhead years later in a small club and had a blast on their "dancefloor". I was pushing the metal heads pretty hard and thought I might get beaten a few times, but they seemed to take it in stride when I started banging their heads for them and climbing on top of people. It was pretty fun.
The first time I saw Slayer was a different kettle of fish. I can't remember the tour, but it was after Reign In Blood. There was a big circle pit with a hefty number of nazi bone heads in attendance. That was a serious bruise fest. People were literally just beating each other. I could only take a few minutes here and there. Navigating that show was weird because of the boneheads meandering around in packs. They would scowl at the few hardcore kids in attendance. We would get lost in the crowd. That's how the night went. They opened with Reign in Blood and it was the sonic highlight of my entire show going life. Musical perfection.
Anyone see Motorhead or Iron Maiden in a small setting?
Nope (never seen either in any setting; would like to rectify that especially Motorhead) but my impression is that the metalheads got the moshing stuff from hardcore i.e. Anthrax's "Caught in a Mosh" and that was a few years before that Slayer show.
JGJR wrote:Welly wrote:JGJR wrote:my impression is that the metalheads in the 80's got pretty much everything from hardcore
Fixed.
Except the political outrage and lyrical bent
Stormy wrote:east coast has the Stooges. instant win
xxxMidgexxx wrote:But perhaps I just love drone stuff in general.
tango fistula wrote:I cut my teeth on some largely non-violent scenes in the early to mid 80's
(Phoenix and Connecticut) so I never got a taste for the mindless violence
or that "rush" at watching some 90 lb kid get wolfpacked by three huge fat bald men.
I never preferred shows that were 100 percent male so I usually opted
for a more inclusive scene/show.
Which is why I was relieved when Mike Bullshit, Esneider and the crew
decided to take NYHC into the 20th century with more inclusiveness, creativity
and community focus. I had long had my fill of jock garbage and stupid by choice crossover
xxxMidgexxx wrote:But perhaps I just love drone stuff in general.
JGJR wrote:
Nope (never seen either in any setting; would like to rectify that especially Motorhead) but my impression is that the metalheads got the moshing stuff from hardcore i.e. Anthrax's "Caught in a Mosh" and that was a few years before that Slayer show.
johnnotkathi wrote:Stooges were not a punk band.
Probably like John S, (ie old and in the scene near the start) from 77 to 85 I saw the transformation of pogoing to the HB strut to chaos pits to circle pits then the metal esqe head banging......etc......
Early on, pogoing could get pretty rough as well. It was not always smiling kids jumping straight up and down, but it definitely was different than the HB strut. I remember reading about it (while in SF) and literally the next week saw Black Flag at the Mab and there was a blend of pogoing and the strut - seeing it the first time it was kinda scary. A bunch of kids from LA came up and were letting the others on the floor have it. Once you got in the fray, it was fun! From what I saw early on, generally people were not targeting anyone, just doing their thing and if you got too close (which happened on a packed floor) you might catch a fist or elbow. You had to keep your chin tucked in....it was more art than science however.
I never minded the stage diving and such, it was part of the process and if you were up front, that's just the way it was.
It was all pretty fun and the scenes from SF and LA were very different. Oh, reminiscing about the old days.....
JGJR wrote:tango fistula wrote:I cut my teeth on some largely non-violent scenes in the early to mid 80's
(Phoenix and Connecticut) so I never got a taste for the mindless violence
or that "rush" at watching some 90 lb kid get wolfpacked by three huge fat bald men.
I never preferred shows that were 100 percent male so I usually opted
for a more inclusive scene/show.
Which is why I was relieved when Mike Bullshit, Esneider and the crew
decided to take NYHC into the 20th century with more inclusiveness, creativity
and community focus. I had long had my fill of jock garbage and stupid by choice crossover
You sound like an ABC guy. I wonder if we've met, though I missed that scene by at least a good year or so. I did know a bunch of those folks in the early to mid '90s, though, and still see some of them around on occasion.
tango fistula wrote:JGJR wrote:tango fistula wrote:I cut my teeth on some largely non-violent scenes in the early to mid 80's
(Phoenix and Connecticut) so I never got a taste for the mindless violence
or that "rush" at watching some 90 lb kid get wolfpacked by three huge fat bald men.
I never preferred shows that were 100 percent male so I usually opted
for a more inclusive scene/show.
Which is why I was relieved when Mike Bullshit, Esneider and the crew
decided to take NYHC into the 20th century with more inclusiveness, creativity
and community focus. I had long had my fill of jock garbage and stupid by choice crossover
You sound like an ABC guy. I wonder if we've met, though I missed that scene by at least a good year or so. I did know a bunch of those folks in the early to mid '90s, though, and still see some of them around on occasion.
I'm a Anthrax (both locations) /ABC NO RIO/Squat Or Rot guy. When the 2nd Anthrax folded ABC NO RIO
had been rolling for a few years and picked up the slack in the Northeast as far as booking the new scene.
It was super cool to see such a supportive DIY punk scene start in the lamest least supportive major city in the U.S. People think it's L.A....nope...NYC. At least then. I'm sure it's not fashion focused and neighborhood centric like it was for the 20 years I had to play there ( )
xxxMidgexxx wrote:But perhaps I just love drone stuff in general.
Stormy wrote:Could give a shit if Stooges were punk or not, they still shit on most LA punk
dave123 wrote:yourenotevil wrote:JGJR wrote:yourenotevil wrote:i don't think you can blame moshing on L.A.
It's pretty well documented that it started out as the HB strut and the DC guys took it back to the East Coast (and eventually up to New York at a Black Flag show at Peppermint Lounge) when Teen Idles went out there.
I'm not saying that some other similar place wouldn't have come up with it, but that's just the facts.
The first time I saw Slayer was a different kettle of fish. I can't remember the tour, but it was after Reign In Blood. There was a big circle pit with a hefty number of nazi bone heads in attendance. That was a serious bruise fest. People were literally just beating each other. I could only take a few minutes here and there. Navigating that show was weird because of the boneheads meandering around in packs. They would scowl at the few hardcore kids in attendance. We would get lost in the crowd. That's how the night went. They opened with Reign in Blood and it was the sonic highlight of my entire show going life. Musical perfection.
Anyone see Motorhead or Iron Maiden in a small setting?
MXV wrote:This is all so stupid to me and always has been. When I go to a show I want to watch the bands. If i wanted to beat up a bunch of people and jump on people like a bunch of monkeys I'd go play football instead. I always thought the whole slamming/moshing/stage diving/crowd surfing thing was stupid. Especially the last two, it is like "hey please notice me!".
I also don't buy into that "it comes with the territory" thing. If you hit me enough times in the back or push me enough I am going to either push back or I'm going to punch you in the face. I almost came to blows with some wasted dipshit at an X show a few years ago who took it upon himself to start pushing and bumping into the crowd around me, as well as me (while I was trying to shoot photos). He was pissing off everyone around him and wouldn't stop and after one too many hits to the back I turned around and shoved him so hard he fell down. When he got back up security ran over to grab him and they tossed him out or physically relocated him after they asked me what happened. It is one thing to dance around and have some fun but when you start invading people's space and push them when they clearly aren't interested then you are just an inconsiderate asshole. Take that shit to the football field.
I'll probably get some heat from some of you about this opinion but that's how I feel. I feel now in 2014 the whole practice of the mosh pit is so outdated and stupid. It's like the younger folks do it because they think that is what you are supposed to do and the result is a bunch of dimwits playing human bumper cars and making things miserable for the people surrounding them who are trying to watch the show without being banged into and having their drinks knocked out of their hands.
version sound wrote:Stormy wrote:Could give a shit if Stooges were punk or not, they still shit on most LA punk
That's not really a fair comparison. They are, after all, the second best band to ever exist. They shit all over even good bands by default.
MXV wrote:dave123 wrote:yourenotevil wrote:JGJR wrote:yourenotevil wrote:i don't think you can blame moshing on L.A.
It's pretty well documented that it started out as the HB strut and the DC guys took it back to the East Coast (and eventually up to New York at a Black Flag show at Peppermint Lounge) when Teen Idles went out there.
I'm not saying that some other similar place wouldn't have come up with it, but that's just the facts.
The first time I saw Slayer was a different kettle of fish. I can't remember the tour, but it was after Reign In Blood. There was a big circle pit with a hefty number of nazi bone heads in attendance. That was a serious bruise fest. People were literally just beating each other. I could only take a few minutes here and there. Navigating that show was weird because of the boneheads meandering around in packs. They would scowl at the few hardcore kids in attendance. We would get lost in the crowd. That's how the night went. They opened with Reign in Blood and it was the sonic highlight of my entire show going life. Musical perfection.
Anyone see Motorhead or Iron Maiden in a small setting?
This is all so stupid to me and always has been. When I go to a show I want to watch the bands. If i wanted to beat up a bunch of people and jump on people like a bunch of monkeys I'd go play football instead. I always thought the whole slamming/moshing/stage diving/crowd surfing thing was stupid. Especially the last two, it is like "hey please notice me!".
I also don't buy into that "it comes with the territory" thing. If you hit me enough times in the back or push me enough I am going to either push back or I'm going to punch you in the face. I almost came to blows with some wasted dipshit at an X show a few years ago who took it upon himself to start pushing and bumping into the crowd around me, as well as me (while I was trying to shoot photos). He was pissing off everyone around him and wouldn't stop and after one too many hits to the back I turned around and shoved him so hard he fell down. When he got back up security ran over to grab him and they tossed him out or physically relocated him after they asked me what happened. It is one thing to dance around and have some fun but when you start invading people's space and push them when they clearly aren't interested then you are just an inconsiderate asshole. Take that shit to the football field.
I'll probably get some heat from some of you about this opinion but that's how I feel. I feel now in 2014 the whole practice of the mosh pit is so outdated and stupid. It's like the younger folks do it because they think that is what you are supposed to do and the result is a bunch of dimwits playing human bumper cars and making things miserable for the people surrounding them who are trying to watch the show without being banged into and having their drinks knocked out of their hands.
77clash wrote:johnnotkathi wrote:Stooges were not a punk band.
Probably like John S, (ie old and in the scene near the start) from 77 to 85 I saw the transformation of pogoing to the HB strut to chaos pits to circle pits then the metal esqe head banging......etc......
Early on, pogoing could get pretty rough as well. It was not always smiling kids jumping straight up and down, but it definitely was different than the HB strut. I remember reading about it (while in SF) and literally the next week saw Black Flag at the Mab and there was a blend of pogoing and the strut - seeing it the first time it was kinda scary. A bunch of kids from LA came up and were letting the others on the floor have it. Once you got in the fray, it was fun! From what I saw early on, generally people were not targeting anyone, just doing their thing and if you got too close (which happened on a packed floor) you might catch a fist or elbow. You had to keep your chin tucked in....it was more art than science however.
I never minded the stage diving and such, it was part of the process and if you were up front, that's just the way it was.
It was all pretty fun and the scenes from SF and LA were very different. Oh, reminiscing about the old days.....
Can't wait to have these discussions with some beer and BBQ back in PA with you next Summer.
johnnotkathi wrote:MXV wrote:dave123 wrote:yourenotevil wrote:JGJR wrote:yourenotevil wrote:i don't think you can blame moshing on L.A.
It's pretty well documented that it started out as the HB strut and the DC guys took it back to the East Coast (and eventually up to New York at a Black Flag show at Peppermint Lounge) when Teen Idles went out there.
I'm not saying that some other similar place wouldn't have come up with it, but that's just the facts.
The first time I saw Slayer was a different kettle of fish. I can't remember the tour, but it was after Reign In Blood. There was a big circle pit with a hefty number of nazi bone heads in attendance. That was a serious bruise fest. People were literally just beating each other. I could only take a few minutes here and there. Navigating that show was weird because of the boneheads meandering around in packs. They would scowl at the few hardcore kids in attendance. We would get lost in the crowd. That's how the night went. They opened with Reign in Blood and it was the sonic highlight of my entire show going life. Musical perfection.
Anyone see Motorhead or Iron Maiden in a small setting?
This is all so stupid to me and always has been. When I go to a show I want to watch the bands. If i wanted to beat up a bunch of people and jump on people like a bunch of monkeys I'd go play football instead. I always thought the whole slamming/moshing/stage diving/crowd surfing thing was stupid. Especially the last two, it is like "hey please notice me!".
I also don't buy into that "it comes with the territory" thing. If you hit me enough times in the back or push me enough I am going to either push back or I'm going to punch you in the face. I almost came to blows with some wasted dipshit at an X show a few years ago who took it upon himself to start pushing and bumping into the crowd around me, as well as me (while I was trying to shoot photos). He was pissing off everyone around him and wouldn't stop and after one too many hits to the back I turned around and shoved him so hard he fell down. When he got back up security ran over to grab him and they tossed him out or physically relocated him after they asked me what happened. It is one thing to dance around and have some fun but when you start invading people's space and push them when they clearly aren't interested then you are just an inconsiderate asshole. Take that shit to the football field.
I'll probably get some heat from some of you about this opinion but that's how I feel. I feel now in 2014 the whole practice of the mosh pit is so outdated and stupid. It's like the younger folks do it because they think that is what you are supposed to do and the result is a bunch of dimwits playing human bumper cars and making things miserable for the people surrounding them who are trying to watch the show without being banged into and having their drinks knocked out of their hands.
Mike, we will have to talk about this next time I see you.....
xxxMidgexxx wrote:But perhaps I just love drone stuff in general.
MXV wrote:dave123 wrote:yourenotevil wrote:JGJR wrote:yourenotevil wrote:i don't think you can blame moshing on L.A.
It's pretty well documented that it started out as the HB strut and the DC guys took it back to the East Coast (and eventually up to New York at a Black Flag show at Peppermint Lounge) when Teen Idles went out there.
I'm not saying that some other similar place wouldn't have come up with it, but that's just the facts.
The first time I saw Slayer was a different kettle of fish. I can't remember the tour, but it was after Reign In Blood. There was a big circle pit with a hefty number of nazi bone heads in attendance. That was a serious bruise fest. People were literally just beating each other. I could only take a few minutes here and there. Navigating that show was weird because of the boneheads meandering around in packs. They would scowl at the few hardcore kids in attendance. We would get lost in the crowd. That's how the night went. They opened with Reign in Blood and it was the sonic highlight of my entire show going life. Musical perfection.
Anyone see Motorhead or Iron Maiden in a small setting?
This is all so stupid to me and always has been. When I go to a show I want to watch the bands. If i wanted to beat up a bunch of people and jump on people like a bunch of monkeys I'd go play football instead. I always thought the whole slamming/moshing/stage diving/crowd surfing thing was stupid. Especially the last two, it is like "hey please notice me!".
I also don't buy into that "it comes with the territory" thing. If you hit me enough times in the back or push me enough I am going to either push back or I'm going to punch you in the face. I almost came to blows with some wasted dipshit at an X show a few years ago who took it upon himself to start pushing and bumping into the crowd around me, as well as me (while I was trying to shoot photos). He was pissing off everyone around him and wouldn't stop and after one too many hits to the back I turned around and shoved him so hard he fell down. When he got back up security ran over to grab him and they tossed him out or physically relocated him after they asked me what happened. It is one thing to dance around and have some fun but when you start invading people's space and push them when they clearly aren't interested then you are just an inconsiderate asshole. Take that shit to the football field.
I'll probably get some heat from some of you about this opinion but that's how I feel. I feel now in 2014 the whole practice of the mosh pit is so outdated and stupid. It's like the younger folks do it because they think that is what you are supposed to do and the result is a bunch of dimwits playing human bumper cars and making things miserable for the people surrounding them who are trying to watch the show without being banged into and having their drinks knocked out of their hands.
johnnotkathi wrote:Agree 100% w/Dave. Please don't tell me you're "the guy" who goes to a show, stands at the edge of the pit and gets pissed off when people bump/run into him. Similarly, if you are pressed up against the stage and get mad about stage divers, that (to me at least) does go with the territory.....
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